Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbits

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=HDV;num=1108357982;start=30#39 date=02/17/05 at 13:19:33](even though the EBU seems to be really favoring 720p.[/quote]
I wasn't aware of that. This is interesting! This means that Pany has a lot at stake with the upcoming HDX. So "arbitrarily" crippling it with prosumer limitations in order to save Varicam sales, might not be in their best interest too. That will benefit us all. Hope I’m right!
 
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

..lol sorry misunderstood ya barry, yeah that would be great if it could stream over firewire to a hard disk solution. espescially if someone makes a hard disk solution that lets you swap the drive out so you can put in a 400gb drive or whatever and not fiddle with the kiddie sized 80 gig ones they useually come with.

..its hard for me to understand sometimes why there is so much belief that a company would limit features on a cheaper cam in order to save sales of a larger one.. im sure its done somtimes.. but sometimes it may not be in their best interest.. the best interest of the company is the bottom dollar. not whether or not they sell 20 more varicams a year simply because its the "top dog" in their camera line. if the less expensive cam sells 50,000 more units cause its so darn good and less varicams sell the company still makes more money. and they make cameras to make money. if you give people what they want at a price they can afford you will make money.. alot of it. so there comes a certain point when "protecting the big cameras" certainly is not in ANYones best interest. if you can make a cheaper cam with alot of the same features.. why not? the big gun studios arent going to switch to using anything less than the best, and will still get varicams for the stuff they want absolute quality on. the only real difference is that alot of people that rent hi def would just buy the cheaper cam , and the manufacturer would take a lrage chunk of market.. same thing that happend with the DVX. alot of things that people wouldve normally only done with a rented hi-def camera or film (cause only they had 24p before) were done on purchased DVX.. alot of money out of other rental companies pockets but i dont think the DVX stopped any varicam sales in the least. and i dont think if it was high def it woudlve either. and even if it did, and the company makes a killing because of it.. then why would they care? thats like turing down a deposit of 100 pennies into your account for a shiney quarter to be put in instead... just because quarters are "bigger and better".
 
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

I'm in complete agreement with you Neil, it's just that this is what usually happens, and that really pisses me off. You'd think that if they sold 50,000 minis vs 20 large, that would be justification enough.

I've always had a big issue with the price gap between prosumer and professional models. Meaning that I would seriously be willing to buy a $10K model with DVCPro50, DigiBeta, IMX, SX or whatever the format that supports 4:2:2 recording, with 1/2" 16x9 CCDs, in a DVX style form factor. I mean the technology has been around, and it is not fiscally impossible to scale it down for the high-end prosumer market.

$25K and up is what you have to pay if you want 4:2:2 SD. And that's with no glass, no batteries and a shitty microphone if it comes with one. I don't have a huge budget, but for affordable 4:2:2, I'd bend over backwards, and eat Kraft Diner for the next 3 years if I have too. But we have no such choice. DV is what we have, and that's what the big corporations deem that we should be forced to have for the sub 10K range.

And when corporations do bring something down to our level, they give us **** like HDV @ 25Mbps. To make matters worse, they insult us with crippled CCDs with extremely poor low light sensitivity. Take Sony for example: HDV specs calls for 1440x1080 for 1080i, yet they give us 960x1080 pixel shifted interpolated crap. At the very least they could have upped the size of those CCDs.
 
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't larger ccds require a larger lense, thus a different form factor?
 
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

When you are old enough to afford all the toys you want, they won't matter anymore ;D

Think of it this way, if you are a company, why sell technology for 10k when you can sell it for 25k or more?

But it's trickling down quickly now...
 
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

because you will sell ALOT less at 25k. donald trump would probably agree. its not a matter of simply finding the top price that SOME people are willing to pay for something. its a matter of finding the top price that ALOT of people would pay for something. i mean.. you can have a great product, and price it too high trying to get the biggest profit margin, and sell alot of them and make some money, and you can sell the same product for alot less and sell a gillion of them and make more money.. only now you have your brand name on alot more peoples cameras..its not just about making a big profit margin.. its about making the most profit margin overall..and i would include brand dissemination as an important marketing stratagy as well. pani could have sold the DVX for 10,000 and people would have still bought it.. but they would not have been as successful as they were with it by any means whatsoever... id say that most of the people reading this here would agree that if it were 10,000 they wouldnt have one right now.

the problem here is that the companies have already made a camera for virtually every price range. so i assume the line of thinking is that they have something to offer for anyones price range.. if you want better, you pay more. well, thats good marketing logic and true to a certain extent, but as i pointed out earlier. when indy people get serious their not going to say .. gee i need a varicam for this project so lets go buy one.. they just rent it. does panasonic make money off the rental . . well, yes and no.. they sell the unit to the rental house once. but its rented out alot more than once, so the rental companies make the real money off the cameras. what companies need to do if possible and within the , is find the target pricerange that perhaps would make it affordable for the serious indy to just buy the camera..ALOT of indies would bu it and more pros would buy it too at a lower cost.. that way pani keeps all that potential money in their pockets, and makes alot of people happy buy making the profit from more sales at a lower profit margin but also at a reduced manufactring cost since higher quantities would be made. im hoping the HDX will sort of be a step in this direction the same as the DVX was.
because its not as if pani marketing doesnt know what they are doing, theyve run all the numbers in the world, and im sure they are doing what theyve predicted is in the companies best interest. only thing is that i think big companies who used to only cater to the big boy productions were certainly missing a very important market.. the independent filmmaker market. because its a very very large group of peole that certainly want the cameras and stuff.. just cant afford it. but since the DVX i think that the power and numbers of independents has sort of stood on a hill and rung a gong saying.. "hey.. what about us..? what do you mean you dont sell that many matteboxes so the prices have to stay high for you to make a profit because they are made in small quantity?.. if you just made a bunch of them and sold them at a reasonable price.. youd reach our market that youve discounted for too long and wed all buy one and proudly have your companies name all over our gear.. and youd make some good money " same thing could be applied to alot of gear and equipment ..i really honestly believe that companies have mostly overlooked the sheer numbers and buying power of the independent market until recently. ..pretty much until the time of the DVX. i would be willing to wager that panasonic has made apx the same or even more money off DVX sales than any other camera in their pro product line this last year. ..maybe im wrong, wouldnt be the first time.. or even the 100,000th time. but all i can say is that the camera has since been copied and hacked and supported beyond anything ive seen before,, so other companies want a piece of what panasonic has in the DVX, and panasonic wants to nurture its little wonder camera to keep it going strong. OK, great . i love panasonics pov on things and thier newfound support of the independents... and Jan is one heck of a gal. ..(tips the brim of his hat). I truley think that panasonic was the first really grasp the potential of the indy market, and i sincerely hope that the HDX can hold onto that grasp. it has big shoes to fill, and even bigger expectations to overcome. and while we cannot presume it will fulfill our every pixelated dream, im sure that we can count on it giving us some of the same buttery smooth flavor weve come to love from the DVX at a higher pixel count.

..i dont know what to think about having to spend near 10k to actually use the higher pixel count. it hasnt been announced that thats the case though.. under 10k just means under 10k.. it doesnt have to mean its 9,999.99 but ill admit that i fear the worst.

oh well. all said and done im just glad that we have all the opportunity we do to use the things available right now. tommorow is always tommorow... it will never come. today is where we should live.. and id say its a pretty nice day.
 
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi

Amen, to the above.
 
...I thought the original Firewire did 400mbps or 50 MBps and the new Firewire800 spec is 800mbps or 100MBps. People always get confused when using mbps and MBps and it leads to misinterpretations. The new HDX should handle Firewire streaming with no problem. My 3 1/2 cents......~reservoir~
 
SimonMW said:
This is where I think the under $10,000 price thing comes in. I think that the camera itseld may well retail for $4000 or thereabouts, but the P2 cards will cost users another $4000 odd so that they can record HD.
Click to expand...
I think this will be the case as well... the "HD recording solution" will be set around 10K, which will include the camera and P2 card(s) - the necessary equipment you'd need to do just that. Except, I'm more prone to think that the camera will sell for around $6,000 if the P2 cards are around $4,000 a piece... not only does that equal the 10K number you're referencing (I'm not sure how you're making $4,000 + $4,000 = $10,000), :-P but it only makes more sense. I can't imagine they'd retail the HDX for cheaper than what the XL2 costs (though, shucks... wouldn't that be cool!) :-D
 
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