GH4 Something New.................and a question?

Illya Friedman

Illya Friedman

Well-known member
So Hot Rod Cameras has been working on something new for the Panasonic GH4.

It's offers 15mm lightweight rods, a baseplate, a very un-cage "cage" component and optional hand grip(s), HDMI clamp and a few other tricks.

This is the same project I started 5-years ago for the original GH camera known as the "Kung Fu Grip" (some of you may have the circa 2009-10 T-shirt).

Over the years we purchased or fabricated 70+ hand grip designs, manufactured from every material you might find- ranging from wood, metal, plastic, leather, bamboo, composite and foam. I've got trashcan sized bin full of discarded grips, I'll post a picture at some point.

We took molds of people hands, researched handle design from private sector "ergonomic specialists" and public institutions like the UC system and NASA. You know what they say- 3rd time (x3)is the charm.

The project has morphed into something far better that I had planned. Internally it's now known as the "Kung Fu Kit." Like everything HRC has ever built, it adheres to ARRI standard spacings, it also is the most affordable professional grade product we've ever built.

Details and photos are still being kept under wraps for another couple weeks during this process of last minutes changes.

What I'll say is it's simply the smartest, most flexible and most powerful piece of kit we've ever designed.

So the reason for this post is a question- what (if anything) would you really like to see as an accessory for a GH4?

It could be anything- mount, hardware, software, electronics...etc. It could be simple or ambitious, complicated or simple- anything you think is missing, or needs to exist.

I'm asking because we're soon reaching the "point of no return" for the initial design, so we'll be less inclined to make changes after that. If for some reason you are embarrassed about making a suggestion in public, you are welcome to PM me. I've had a number of good PM suggestions elsewhere already, and one is being implemented into the design.

Thanks for your time and serious consideration!
 
Illya,

Until and if Panasonic ever decides to spec a tilt-able and higher quality view finder, I'd love to see your rig include a simple mount/bracket for an external VF that would allow tilting of an aftermarket VF with a minimum of fuss and complexity.

The Panasonic GX7's tilt-able VF is a breath of fresh air in a sea of fixed VF's. Frankly, I wish Panasonic would incorporate something similar in the next GH-whatever. Regardless, it won't be as high quality of a VF that's available after market.

Thanks for asking !
 
-Some coating to GH4 grip. It is now slippery with sweaty hands
-Wind cut foam cap for GH4 mic
-Lightweigt neck strap ( I have a shoe lace now )
 
-Modular with components that quick release, so it can be broken down, & built quickly.

-When the HDMI support is not in use the LCD should fully articulate.
 
Ever since wiggly cables broke my Micro HDMI port I've known I need to (get the camera fixed and) get a cage with a clamp of some sort. Nothing has really popped out for easy to use handheld and also drop on a rig and fit with what I've got going, so not sure I have so much as a request as an interest in what you've already developed.
 
First of all thank you for all the suggestions so far- here's some quick responses in reverse order.

>A replacement for the YAGH.

Having looked under the hood, I know that a replacement for the YAGH would be a very tall order from anyone outside of Panasonic. You may want to try to find a way to make the best of it as no one will have any real replacement for a long time.


>-Modular with components that quick release, so it can be broken down, & built quickly.

Good news, what we've built is modular.

While I can change it I'm going to partially disagree with what needs a quick-release.

I've built a lot of quick release pieces and this kit does have quick release for the most important/most commonly used part that you would need to quick release. There are some companies which want to quick release everything, this creates potential points of failure and knobs/levers can get bumped and create real safety problems. There is sometimes real benefit to an allen wrench for some connections- particularly things that are set once and then rarely moved, and you don't want to slip accidentally. Also, I found that a captured screw, and easy locating pieces (so that you can't lose the connector and it's easy to put on correctly) eliminates much of my problems with such points that would typically require a tool. I'm also including tools and offering a hiding place for the tools in the Kung Fu Kit, so that like the shutter adjustment tool for the Moviecam Compact- you always have it at the ready.

Guaranteed that set-up and breakdown even with tools is seconds- rather than minutes.


>NATO-rail (does not exlude screw holes).

Check, we have a NATO-rail option. But I don't exactly follow when you say "does not exlude screw holes." Can you give me an example of this?


>-Some coating to GH4 grip. It is now slippery with sweaty hands

Do you mean operators right hand grip or left hand (bare camera body) grip?

>Wind cut foam cap for GH4 mic

Great idea!

>Lightweigt neck strap ( I have a shoe lace now )

Good suggestion, I would not have thought of this- is weight of the strap particularly important? Do you think the GH1/GH2 neck straps too thick and bulky?


> simple mount/bracket for an external VF that would allow tilting of an aftermarket VF with a minimum of fuss and complexity.

Great idea- in development for Q1 2015 release.


You all can disagree with each other too if anyone reads something and doesn't feel the same.

Thank you for all the great comments and suggestions, keep them coming!

 
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I am looking for a rig or cage that can accommodate the battery grip or the YAGH. I love having 2 batteries loaded and if needed being able to swap out the one in the grip for a 3rd. I don't have the YAGH interface as of now but could see getting it eventually. But I haven't come across any rigs that seem to have enough room. The CAME-TV rig looks like there is room above the body but I can't tell if it is enough.
 
Illya, first off I'd like to say that I'm happily surprised that you'd consider requesting input from GH3 & GH4 users like myself in a forum like this. Here's my short list of priorities for a "very un-cage "cage" component"

1. Comfortable hand-held because I do a lot of work that way.
2. An HDMI clamp that minimally interferes with the LCD screen (perhaps the best solution is to clamp a micro-HDMI-to-HDMI adapter in place?)
3. Allows full access to all camera controls.
4. Has shoe-mounts and screw mounts for accessories.

I've been looking at cage solutions for years without finding the "right" one. I look forward to seeing yours.
 
Illya,

I agree some assemblies are best done with hex wrenches. Only want to be sure setup/breakdown is quick & that individual components retain the compact spirit of the GH system. I remember our conversations & didn't want to mention the hiding place for tools or the other convience found on some Panavision bodies.

(As you know) I own Wooden Camera cages but am intrigued to handle your final product & have inquired at the shop a couple of times to see how it's progressing. Glad to hear your embracing ARRI standards & making provisions for NATO/Safety rails. I'm sure your offering will be extra heavy-duty, & appropriate for getting fully decked out, something that is sorely missing in most the other options.

Best,
Bern
 
I'd like to see an HDMI / MIC socket and Headphones clamp in one which doesn't interfere with the LCD too much. I'm bored of these crappy cables popping out when I'm on a job!
 
After a shoot yesterday, I was thinking of a folding shoulder stock/support... of course that paired with the NATO rails and black powdercoating may get this banned in California as an assault camera.
 
I'd been using a Gorillapod Focus bent to provide dual shoulder support and a hand grip... but the legs sometimes shift when you don't want them to
 
I believe I posted all of these ideas in your earlier thread but I'll repeat them here.

-A custom-made HDMI cable, with a square tip that fits flush into the recess around the port, with a flat/ribbon-style cable that lays flat against the body and runs forwards, where it is secured to the left vertical wall of the cage and can be run up or down the cage from there. This could terminate in a full-size female HDMI jack, or just be offered with various tips & lengths.

The point here is obviously to allow for the camera's LCD to swivel when flipped out. I feel that the LCD (with the cam's on-screen displays) are plenty adequate for lightweight run-n-gun shooting, but as the EVF doesn't swivel upwards, you are stuck with using the LCD for all but eye-level shots. With a loupe/LCDVF, this is plenty functional, except for the HDMI interference issue, and the screen's pivot not really being strong enough to be able to press your eye into the loupe for fear of stretching/breaking the pivot. Which brings me to the next idea:

-A brace/loupe attachment bracket for the LCD. Basically something like the one Varavon made for the GH3 for a short while, but that attaches to the left side of the cage instead of under the camera. The thumbscrew for adjusting the screen angle could just screw into a 1/4-20 hole in the left cage wall, and also be the mounting screw. So to remove*it for breakdown would be as simple as unthreading the thumbscrew from the cage, and sliding the bracket off of the LCD.

You could offer a plain bracket that just reinforces the screen, and allows for mounting the loupe of your choice, or a complete system with a loupe. Maybe partner with Zacuto or KinoTehnik for this?

-Make the right side of the cage removeable/optional. Some people are perfectly happy with using the GH4's bare grip, some don't mind having to grip around the cage if it gives them more mounting space/options on the cage. Personally I would like to see something like the Wooden half-cages, but with another vertical piece tucked between the handgrip and lens (where your fingertips rest when your hand is on the grip). This wall would sit flat against the camera body, and would only need to be 3 or 4mm thick. You could machine in half-round dimpled reliefs for your fingertips so as not to make the grip any smaller-feeling.

-I also echo the desire for some sort of minimalist gunstock/shoulder-pad type attachment. I have thought about getting one of those cheap Polaroid 15mm shoulder rigs, just to try to adapt the shoulderpad/stock piece to mount to my rig's rails, behind the camera. I think all I would really need is a 15mm clamp that holds two rails in parallel but lets them rotate around a common axis (think clock hands). Haven't seen a piece like this yet though, seems like it would already exist...
 
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Illya,

I'd love for a cage/LW 15mm baseplate system that somehow integrates with your PL mount. Something like Viewfactor's BMPCC cage.
 
george su said:
Illya,

I'd love for a cage/LW 15mm baseplate system that somehow integrates with your PL mount.
Click to expand...

Your wish is granted :-) It has all captured hardware, so nothing to lose.

aldolega said:
>A custom-made HDMI cable.
Click to expand...

We actually researched this. Reality is 10K-20K minimum cables purchase to make such a thing affordable. Ultimately it was decided that a smart clamp is more practical. Even a perfectly clamped cable could be lost or damaged when it's not attached to the camera, and a termination point which requires a second cable creates another potential point of failure.

>A brace/loupe attachment bracket for the LCD.

This is a great idea! I don't know how many other people would like to shoot that way, but I love it- and will investigate the possibility.

As for a loop, we don't feel see need to re-invent the wheel with another loop-like device, so we made our Kung Fu kit compatible with Zacuto's "Gorilla Plate" Z-finder attachment. I really like how simple Zacuto made the attachment, and if you dislike the sticky frames with our system you can still use a Z-finder.

>Make the right side of the cage removeable/optional.

You'll be very happy :-)

>I also echo the desire for some sort of minimalist gunstock/shoulder-pad type attachment.

Admittedly, using a shoulder stock is not my style of shooting and did not feel natural to me 20+ years ago with the gunstock for my Krasnagorsk 16mm camera

3713896920_6a0ce40a20.jpg,

but now that I have recently tested some friends 'gunstock' kits with their GH-cameras, I do see the value. IMO, there's a problem with a truly comfortable gun-stock that is also small. It will be the challenge to overcome, but I'm willing to take a crack at it.

We actually have a really nice interface point with the Kung Fu Kit, but the trick will be in the design and execution. If you are interested I will invite you to be a beta tester for the gunstock when a prototype exits (probably a few months).

nobbystylus said:
I'd like to see an HDMI / MIC socket and Headphones clamp in one
Click to expand...

I have not seen someone use all of these at once, are you usually all ports simultaneously? Are the mic/headphone cables popping out, they have stayed in place pretty well for me.

Benjobe said:
I'm happily surprised that you'd consider requesting input from GH3 & GH4 users like myself in a forum like this.
Click to expand...

Don't be surprised. I've been at the forefront of the HDSLR/4KSLR/Small format cameras since 2009 and a member here since 2005. There's a lot of kindred spirits who haunt this forum. As for your other suggestions, you'll be glad that you can check them all off your list.

>1. Comfortable hand-held because I do a lot of work that way.

Check

>2. An HDMI clamp that minimally interferes with the LCD screen

Check -although, keep in mind there are some physical limitations with the placement of the micro HDMI port. We do allow the same range of motion when using the GH4 w/YAGH, when using the smart HDMI clamp. Without the clamp you can have full range of motion.

>3. Allows full access to all camera controls.

Check

4. Has shoe-mounts and screw mounts for accessories.

Check

Cole said:
I am looking for a rig or cage that can accommodate the battery grip or the YAGH.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the focus for the Kung Fu kit, we have some more traditional cinema style power options in the works, but if there is sufficient demand we will look into making a version compatible with the battery grip/YAGH.

Bern Caughey said:
I'm sure your offering will be extra heavy-duty, & appropriate for getting fully decked out, something that is sorely missing in most the other options.​
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words Bern. I had actually forgotten you already got an early sneak peak.

>retain the compact spirit of the GH system

Check (I'm a minimalist when it comes to camera parts and pieces)

>extra heavy-duty

Check, but right now Right now the basic configuration adds less than 1 lb of weight!


Another great round of suggestions! I like where this is going.



​
 
Illya Friedman said:
>NATO-rail (does not exlude screw holes).

Check, we have a NATO-rail option. But I don't exactly follow when you say "does not exlude screw holes." Can you give me an example...
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My English..... Hazy at times..... :-)

I own the Swedish Chameleon cage, like it apart from the price and a fine tuned difference for the screw holes in it's base plate, making it impossible to attach it to standart type accessories with fixed distance. I even like their idea to have the top rail so high you can use the flash - while for me this works perfectly as a kind of top handle for shooting handheld at times. I guess that is not what makes a cage small like you want it for your's.

Apart from this - what I meant was that the NATO-rail SC have integrated as the left side of the cage has also screw holes, so one can decide wether to attach stuff with NATO clamps or with screw.
 
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