Some SundanceFest H1 24F SDI to DVCPROHD clips

Barry_Green said:
Shannon Rawls says that Vegas 6 can capture direct from the XLH1.
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How strange is that.

I talked to a more camera savvy guy today about capturing from the H1 and he says capturing to firewire isn't bad at all.

He owns the Z1 and he captures to firewire at the moment.

I didn't realize what kind of setup we were working with, but our editing stations are decent. So, I'm not worried about editing footage at all.

All this time I've been wondering what a RAID setup looked like... and there's one for each of our core editing systems. Go figure. The AVID label on it threw me off.

Like I said, I'm not that savvy when it comes to these cameras and all this other stuff, but I'm catching on.
 
Benton said:
What about a 35mm adapter WITH A RELAY LENS, so that you didn't have to plop it ontop of the Canon lens...

What about that
-- Hmmmm?
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Interesting you should ask that...

I was stopped on Main St. in Park City the other night (while filming) by a guy who handed me his card...turns out he is Jonathan Houser, Pres. of Cinemek, makers of the Guerrilla 35 adapter. He was very interested in the H1 I had in my hands. Said they are getting one to start developing a relay lens to mount natively on the XL. He asked a lot of questions about the H1, and he's very excited to come by the studio and see some HD footage I've shot at the festival. He has a preproduction HVX apparently, and spoke of the noise and compression problems he's had with it. He thinks that the shipping versions are probably much better (which is true, apparently), but he's heard good things about the H1 and is looking forward to doing a 35 adapter *the right way* for the camera.

Hopefully seeing H1 footage will light a fire with them.
 
MattC said:
I think this footage looks great. I've never had a problem with the way the Canon's look obviously, but the whole HDV/SDI thing has me grumbling...

Hey Elton, you don't happen to have a 16X manual lens there with you do you? If so, I'd love to see some footage shot with that.

Matt
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What's got you grumbling? You don't like the SDI workaround that I've been espousing?
I can understand that, but I like working in DV100. It's just better than HDV in post.
If there were nasty artifacts transferring to DV100, I wouldn't go this route, but so far SDI to DV100 is quite clean.

I hope to try out a manual lens in the near future, but as of right now I don't have one.
 
Elton said:
Interesting you should ask that...

I was stopped on Main St. in Park City the other night (while filming) by a guy who handed me his card...turns out he is Jonathan Houser, Pres. of Cinemek, makers of the Guerrilla 35 adapter. He was very interested in the H1 I had in my hands. Said they are getting one to start developing a relay lens to mount natively on the XL. He asked a lot of questions about the H1, and he's very excited to come by the studio and see some HD footage I've shot at the festival. He has a preproduction HVX apparently, and spoke of the noise and compression problems he's had with it. He thinks that the shipping versions are probably much better (which is true, apparently), but he's heard good things about the H1 and is looking forward to doing a 35 adapter *the right way* for the camera.

Hopefully seeing H1 footage will light a fire with them.
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ELTON !
This is what I want to know - Thanks !
I have been folllowing the G35 for quite awhile.
They have had a HVX for a month or so and while there has been a picture posted of the 2 together there has been no footage - good to know this is the reson for the delay.
I am very much looking forward to the G35 plus an HD camera -
witth a relay lens, the G35 might just push me over into the H1

again, Thanks for your post. Your footage from Sundance has been very important to see
 
I have another "Day in the Life" segment airing 9pm EST this evening on the Sundance channel as part of "Festival Dailies". It's shot SD 24F with the H1. It follows a pair of filmmakers who made a very interesting documentary called "The Trials of Darryl Hunt".

Tune in or Tivo if you can.
 
Nice footage. I'm still not digging the motion of the H1 though, that's just my personal preference. However, the wide shots look great, it doesn't seem to fall apart at all in details like SD mini-DV cameras tend to do. But I have a few questions.

1. Okay, I got lost, which card did you use to capture the HD-SDI? Kona or Decklink?

2. Which card do you think would be better overall? They've recently announced the Kona 3, but the Decklink HD seems to do the same stuff, minus the HD upconvert of the Kona 3.

3. How did you film on the go? Did you drag your G5 along? Use a laptop? Carry a heavy external RAID array around?

4. If you didn't have to haul your G5 around, then obviously you must have had a deck of some sort, whether it's yours or rented, for HD-SDI download and you probably had to lug that around. If so, which deck did you use and, if you had your choice, would DVCPRO-HD be your primary finishing codec or would you use HD-CAM or some higher format in the 4:4:4 range?
 
Elton said:
It's a pretty simple setup:


--G5 Dual 2.7

--XL-H1 SDI (had to play out the HDV tape into Kona SDI, Firestore's could make it tapeless output)

--FCP 5/Kona LH card

--Kona DVCPROHD 1080i capture preset

--Real-time conversion into DV100

--Audio piped in analog XLR into Kona LH...sync is perfect. Quality was fine

--Cinema Tools reverse telecine to 23.98 DVCPROHD clips (SDI output is 1080i). This was the part that was a little tricky. It took a few different passes on the footage to figure out which inverse pulldown worked.

--Edit and finish in whatever format you wish.

I'm pretty sure eventually there will be native 24F support, and even with this workflow you could reconform the clips to HDV...but the conversion to DVCPROHD almost seems better.

At this point I'm not even considering HDV for post. DV100 is a good editing codec, and if I need to do something higher end, I can capture and render in uncompressed, if desired.

This setup, of course, isn't dirt cheap, but with any of these HD formats you certainly need a fast computer, and the Kona card w/SDI is worth it's weight in gold, IMHO.
I believe you can get a Kona LH for around $1,700. If that is too much, there's always the Blackmagic Decklink HD for $595. The only problem with it is there's no HD analog monitoring, and no audio input. The H1 SDI is strictly video signal only, so you need to jump though a few hoops for it all to work properly.

If you're on the PC side, there's always the excellent Cineform in Adobe Premiere, and I believe Vegas 6 works natively with 24F HDV. I'm not too fond of HDV for any grading or motion graphics though.

Hope that helped a little.

Barlow
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There's his response to 3/4 I believe. That's basically what is workflow was.

Don't quote me, but I think he captured to the tape deck, then took the footage from the tape through the SDI. But I could be wrong. I might've totally misinterpreted his response to my questions.

What do you mean you don't like the "motion"? Not saying "You'd better like it!". I mean like... what's odd about it's motion?
 
Well, I meant what was he physically doing to capture his footage, like in one of the clips, they were outside in the snow with the houses in the background, did he have the camera wired through a window into a building or have his G5 out in the snow to capture or what?

As far as the motion thing, I mean the 24F. This was filmed with 24F right? Or did he mean that he changed it from 1080i to 24fps in post with Cinema Tools? But anyway, I'm not a big fan of the motion of the XLH1 in 24F. There is a slight jitter, ever so slight that it is noticeable to me, but when I look at the 24p on the DVX100, there isn't that problem. I don't know what it is, but it just isn't that fluid to me. Much better than the XL2's 24p performance, but it's still a little off for me.
 
Elton said:
I have another "Day in the Life" segment airing 9pm EST this evening on the Sundance channel as part of "Festival Dailies". It's shot SD 24F with the H1. It follows a pair of filmmakers who made a very interesting documentary called "The Trials of Darryl Hunt".

Tune in or Tivo if you can.
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Ahhh, Elton
You got Annie Sundberg !

Good man. Good eye
 
Jack_Felis said:
Well, I meant what was he physically doing to capture his footage, like in one of the clips, they were outside in the snow with the houses in the background, did he have the camera wired through a window into a building or have his G5 out in the snow to capture or what?
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This was out runnin' and gunnin' with Carlos and crew. Straight to HDV tape. I captured to my G5 w/SDI Kona card once I got back to the studio.


Jack_Felis said:
As far as the motion thing, I mean the 24F. This was filmed with 24F right? Or did he mean that he changed it from 1080i to 24fps in post with Cinema Tools? But anyway, I'm not a big fan of the motion of the XLH1 in 24F. There is a slight jitter, ever so slight that it is noticeable to me, but when I look at the 24p on the DVX100, there isn't that problem. I don't know what it is, but it just isn't that fluid to me. Much better than the XL2's 24p performance, but it's still a little off for me.
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It's 24f/p extracted from 1080i with Cinema Tools. I believe I was actually in auto mode in that shot you were talking about, and the shutter speed went slightly up to compensate for the bright conditions. I'll post other clips when I've got time and you'll see the motion is the same. I just flipped a switch and started recording in that shot.

Most of my stuff is manual mode now.
 
Jack_Felis said:
As far as the motion thing, I mean the 24F. This was filmed with 24F right? Or did he mean that he changed it from 1080i to 24fps in post with Cinema Tools? But anyway, I'm not a big fan of the motion of the XLH1 in 24F. There is a slight jitter, ever so slight that it is noticeable to me, but when I look at the 24p on the DVX100, there isn't that problem. I don't know what it is, but it just isn't that fluid to me. Much better than the XL2's 24p performance, but it's still a little off for me.
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I don't quite understand this quote. You're saying that the 24F performance is not as good as the DVX, yet much better than the XL2's 24P performance. How can that be??? The XL2's 24P is acquired the exact same way as the DVX's 24P is acquired. Sure, there are difference in color and resolution, but from a motion rendition aspect, 24P from both cameras are exactly the same ...

I have done testing with 24F and the motion rendition seems to be exactly the same as 24P. As more people are getting their hands on the camera, this is getting more and more confirmed. Barry has stated that the motion rendition is essentially the same and after testing this myself, I have to agree.

In DV modes, even the 2:3 and 2:3:3:2 pulldown options are present .... I made a quick clip to demonstrate the motion rendition similarities.

http://homepage.mac.com/m.galvan/FileSharing1.html

Hope this helps clear the confusion of the 24F mode.
 
mgalvan said:
I don't quite understand this quote. You're saying that the 24F performance is not as good as the DVX, yet much better than the XL2's 24P performance. How can that be??? The XL2's 24P is acquired the exact same way as the DVX's 24P is acquired. Sure, there are difference in color and resolution, but from a motion rendition aspect, 24P from both cameras are exactly the same ...

I have done testing with 24F and the motion rendition seems to be exactly the same as 24P. As more people are getting their hands on the camera, this is getting more and more confirmed. Barry has stated that the motion rendition is essentially the same and after testing this myself, I have to agree.

In DV modes, even the 2:3 and 2:3:3:2 pulldown options are present .... I made a quick clip to demonstrate the motion rendition similarities.

http://homepage.mac.com/m.galvan/FileSharing1.html

Hope this helps clear the confusion of the 24F mode.
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I could've sworn that's what Barry wrote in one of these threads. That's why I had to ask what he meant by not liking the motion.

It looks just like 24p to me, at least over the internet.
 
Don't bother. The XL2 renders motion exactly the same as the DVX. I don't own a DVX but this is both my observation and what Barry Green has told me (and others). Some people just don't believe it.

Matt
 
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