Some questions about this Camera I have not really seen answered

Kit Hannah

Kit Hannah

Veteran
I have been trolling (and drooling) for some time looking into these cameras. I am currently running a HPX500, but wouldn't mind getting something much more portable and something that has this kind of image quality. And I have been planning on getting another DSLR for a long time. This is the best of both worlds for me.

But reading over all of the information, posts, specs, etc, I'm coming up with a few questions that I can't seem to understand.

1. Recording time. I have seen the 4GB / 12 Minute (HD) limitation, but would it just be a firmware update to automatically start recording the next clip to a new file? Something similar to the way the Firestores work? Those are limited to 2 GB clips, and P2 Cards do 4GB files on them, obviously for Fat 32 Purposes, so what's keeping this camera from being able to do the same thing? Why don't they implement continuous shooting? It would be so nice to roll into some of our live events with a freakin backpack and use multiple cameras without having to babysit them.

2. Resolution of HDMI. Anybody know what the resolution is of the outputted HDMI? I saw a couple posts mentioning that it wasn't full HD, so is it just a 640x480?

3. Timecode. Is there a way to jamb timecode to it to sync with an external audio recorder?

Sorry if any of these questions have been answered, but I looked.

Thanks in advance.

Kit
 
1. Maybe a firmware update will do the trick, but we have no idea if Canon is intending on implementing it. The only rumored change to the video mode is 24P. However, the main concern with continuous shooting is overheating of the sensor. The Nikon D90 is really bad in this department, which is why it has a five-minute recording limit.

2. Yes.

3. No. If you get a plug-in like Sync-n-Link or PluralEyes, you can automatically sync video and audio without timecode.
 
1) It's possible. This is something the firmware hack is attempting to solve too. The challenge is to have it seamless with no dropped frames.

2) HDMI output is under some question right now. It is HD and it appears to look very close to 1080i, but the camera buffer size was discovered at only 960x540. A standard interlaced signal is 1920x540. We suspect it's duplicating pixels but I have not seen this confirmed. When you hit record it automatically changes to 480p, which looks much worse but still works.

3) Canon said something about a possible timecode firmware update. It's possible the firmware hack can find a way but don't hold your breath.
 
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You can blame the French for the 12 min limit. In order to protect a now no-existent VCR industry they forced through EC tariffs on imported VCRs. This is why camcorders with inputs attract higher taxes over here and cost more. It also catches camcorders without inputs and the 12min limit is to prevent the 5DII being classed as a camcorder. The fact that this coincides with the FAT32 limit is a convenient excuse for not giving us a longer run. This is also why EU spec GH1s are limited in recording time.
Whether a firmware hack can overcome this by linking clips is still a moot point.
Disgruntled Dave
 
No need to blame the French...

The 12 min figure is a ballpark. In reality you can go far over 12 min, especially with the SD mode. The limit is the 4 GB file size, and that is enforced by the file system. The time frame depends on the VBR, which in turn determines the file size.

You can record as long as you want given that you don't hit the 4GB limit. Once you are there recording will automatically stop.

How long can you record? It depends on what it is you are recording, the data rate at which the VBR adjusts itself to. I have had it go up to 20 min, but it is very rare that I record for that long.
 
Really? I thought the 12 min limit was set in stone.
Nevertheless we are still stuck with the toxic EU import tariffs :kali:
Dave
 
So when you download your footage, it's not HD? Or are you guys talking only about resolution to a monitor?

Now I'm really confused....

john
 
ydgmdlu said:
However, the main concern with continuous shooting is overheating of the sensor. The Nikon D90 is really bad in this department, which is why it has a five-minute recording limit.
Click to expand...

So if this were correct, I guess that 1 second between it stopping and you starting again gives it enough time to cool down? Seems a little odd to me.

Has anybody had any specific overheating problems with the Canon? (and please, only the Canon, not the Panasonic or Nikon, that's why I posted it in THIS Sub-forum. I'm interested in the Canon and nothing else at this point)

Daniel L. said:
No need to blame the French...
Click to expand...

Although we would love to blame the French for everything negative (sarcasm), I understand the Fat32 File Structure and it's limitations.


Is there any sort of wireless star and stop device that you could sync to multiple cameras for a start/stop recording all at the same time?

Thanks for the responses guys.

Kit
 
Thank God. By what method does the camera download footage, the HDMI cable or something else?

john
 
Ahhhh, I see. So your computer needs to have a memory card slot to down load or is there another method?

I know these questions must seems pretty stupid, but look at the source!
:2vrolijk_08:

john
 
Kit Hannah said:
So if this were correct, I guess that 1 second between it stopping and you starting again gives it enough time to cool down? Seems a little odd to me.
Click to expand...
What I was saying was simply that, at least for the D90, the recording time limit was designed to discourage continuous shooting that would overheat the sensor. This was Nikon's stated reason for the time limit. There is no other reason. The D90's bitrate is far lower than the 5D's, so it's not because of the file system. You can restart recording the second that it automatically stops, but of course the heat would just keep building. Stopping is simply the camera's way of telling you, "it's time to give it a rest for a while."

We don't know exactly why Canon does not allow continuous shooting. The 5D's sensor overheats far more slowly than the D90's. But it does overheat after a time. The Panasonic GH1 does not seem to have an overheating problem. I was implying that overheating concerns might be a reason why the Canon engineers programmed a hard stop after 4GB, and I was explicitly saying that even if there were no time limit, you should stop recording after a while anyway.

The main problem with overheating is that it leads to noise degrading the image, not to mention being bad for the electronics.
 
jdv said:
Ahhhh, I see. So your computer needs to have a memory card slot to down load or is there another method?

I know these questions must seems pretty stupid, but look at the source!
:2vrolijk_08:

john
Click to expand...
You can get a USB card reader. When you load the card on your computer, it acts as an external hard drive. So you can drag and drop files just like with any hard drive.

You can really look up such basic information like this on your own by reading the threads in this forum or Googling. There's no need to ask basic questions. You'll save yourself the time of waiting for an answer.
 
ydgmdlu said:
You can really look up such basic information like this on your own by reading the threads in this forum or Googling. There's no need to ask basic questions. You'll save yourself the time of waiting for an answer.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing, just felt like I was going to come off as rude. I try to research before I ask...
 
I have been using the 5d Mark 2 for the past 3 nights shooting for 3 hours at a time. And I am currently on shoot for the 4th and final day. Externally the body is only warm to the touch, certainly nothing that indicates that things are really heating up inside. And I am shooting to 3 8GB CF cards... once the card is full I pop it out and put a new one in as fast as I can get that little card in the camera. And when the camera stops after it reaches about 12 minutes I simply hit record again. I have seen nothing to indicate image degradation after shooting like this for 2-3 hours (albeit with a couple 10 minute crowd breaks).
Maybe this helps someone out there. Let me know if I can answer any specific questions and I will certainly try.
 
Green Tree Digital said:
I have been using the 5d Mark 2 for the past 3 nights shooting for 3 hours at a time. And I am currently on shoot for the 4th and final day. Externally the body is only warm to the touch, certainly nothing that indicates that things are really heating up inside. And I am shooting to 3 8GB CF cards... once the card is full I pop it out and put a new one in as fast as I can get that little card in the camera. And when the camera stops after it reaches about 12 minutes I simply hit record again. I have seen nothing to indicate image degradation after shooting like this for 2-3 hours (albeit with a couple 10 minute crowd breaks).
Maybe this helps someone out there. Let me know if I can answer any specific questions and I will certainly try.
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot for that, Green Tree. That's exactly what kind of feedback I am looking for, definitely. Are you outdoors or indoors? And no problems at all? That's what I don't get, why can't it just automatically and seamlessly start recording a new clip? Well, maybe if I yell loud enough, Canon will hear me, just like how they implemented manual control, because the regular folks like you and me asked for it. I would like to think it is as simple as a few lines of code. ie. There has to be some sort of code that says "stop when 4GB limit reached", why not change it to "start new clip when 4GB limit reached". I dunno.

I think if that can be done, I can live with some of the other small hassles of this camera.

Right now for live events, lugging in a few HPX500's, although nice, is a huge hassle. Big sticks, big support gear, etc. etc. And the cameras are pretty expensive. It would be really nice to come in with a small backpack and a small tripod bag, setup a few very small and very unobtrusive cameras in different positions (places you couldn't easily put a 500), have a couple of manned cameras, and have a sweet looking production. But the 12-20 minute recording thing is somewhat limiting.

Just some thoughts.
 
Kit Hannah said:
Although we would love to blame the French for everything negative (sarcasm), I understand the Fat32 File Structure and it's limitations.
Click to expand...

Except that P2 cards are Fat32 and don't have an issue. Linking files allows for continuous shooting. And you have to consider why HDMI doesn't help us with this; they don't want it running too long. Although I'm more inclined to believe the overheating issue, companies like to be safe about stuff like that. It just seems unlikely they'd make such a massive change for one market, namely France. Although I still think it, as with most things, is their fault.
 
Cassius said:
Except that P2 cards are Fat32 and don't have an issue. Linking files allows for continuous shooting.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course they are Fat32. And no, they don't have issues, just limitations (4GB). I have lots of P2 cards. That's why I'm saying that it would be nice to see Canon update the firmware on this bad boy and make it a little less impractical. I feel like you miss interpreted what I said. :2vrolijk_08:
 
Kit,

I feel you. The 500 is my primary camera as well, but I also just recently acquired a 5d for the same reasons that you did, as well as the latitude and great DOF.

It is awesome. You'll enjoy it.
 
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