arrestthisman
Well-known member
I know the noise issue has been hashed over to death, but I just spent a couple of hours doing some tests with my HVX200 and powerbook looking for noise, and methods to reduce it. Some noise is, obviously, inevitable, but I found that different settings in different shots made a HUGE impact.
So here's a few thoughts just in case it may help some people out there. If this is not relevant, than feel free to discard this post; I'd rather share, though, at the risk of repitition, rather than withhold possible insight that could help.
okay...
1. The biggest lesson I learned is that there is no "preset" that holds noise down in all shots. In other words, EVERY single scene needs to be tweaked to pull down the noise. This is contrary to what I originally thought: that certian settings always pull noise. Depends on the colors/luma so experimentation is the only way to optimize your scene.
2. For some reason. In some programs (I use scopebox and flipflop), preview over firewire shows far more macro blocks than are recorded to to the P2 media. I do not know why this is, but dissapointing noisey footage that I previewed for focus @ 1:1 pixels looked much better once recorded and viewed on the same monitor.
3. B. Press makes an insane difference in noise, BUT with detail @ -7 (v detail too) and coring to +7, cine-like D doesn't make a HUGE difference. B.Press with these settings has less of an advantage with these detail settings in my tests.
4. This may be the most helpful: I love to use warm colors, and use warmcards to bias the white balance. I wanted to see if this affects noise. It DOES NOT... BUT, a very warm card can bias the white to saturate color enough that it exceeds the "punch" of cinelike Matrix. So, you can use a warm card with the normal matrix instead of cinelike matrix and save a good deal of chroma noise.
5. 1080pa versus 720pn: It's not much, but in b.press to b.press, 1080pa had a slight, but noticable advantage in terms of noise/grain.
6. Master Ped makes a big difference, BUT NOT ALWAYS. Check to make sure. This camera seems to be all about nearly infinite in-cam flexibility, and every permutation changes the game, but M.Ped seems to be especially dependant on other settings in terms of introducing noise. (I don't remember the exact tests, but that was the definite conclusion.)
7. Last but not least: Zooming in to mid-tone or low/midtone areas, most prone to noise, turning on focus assist, and EVF DTL give a very good indication of noise. This is especially helpful for people like me who often shoot run and gun. Surprisingly I found (as I stated above) that firewire preview is not very accurate (at least on Mac) FOR ME. Results may very, and this is only my experience.
I hope this helps some people out there. Especially those who shoot in mostly natural light, like me. I love the look of a natural picture, even with grain. To give you an idea, I think the most beautifully shot film was easily Eyes Wide Shut. Everytime I watch it I am in awe of how dreamlike and real it looks at the same time. For me it was the perfect blend for the suspention of disbelief.
BTW, I apologize in advance for my poor spelling. Again, I hope this helps.
I know that after tonight's tests I have a whole new love for this great little camera. I had been very concerned about grain for shots I need in the dark for an upcoming project, but those fears are gone after I've seen what this thing can do with proper modification.
The biggest difference to me between the DVX and the HVX (besides the obvious), is that the DVX looked wonderful no matter what, if not a little soft, but the HVX only yields "usable" images, unless you give it a lot of care, then it gives you magic. It needs love, light, and lots of attention for best results; but once that is established, man oh man, no wonder panasonic hasn't updated it. It's pretty wonderful.
I hope they do bring it to 1/2" imagers, but hopefully CCDs, the filmlike motion they (panny) give is pretty amazing. I can't think of any other device that has the same quality/size/weight ratio. Not to compare apples to oranges, but RED is bigger and heavier, not by a lot, but it's certianly not smaller. And I'm thinking to myself that some people like myself really need SMALL run and gun devices.
Scarlet? HVX300? HVX200A?
All I know is that I'm a lucky filmmaker to live in this day and age.
Thanks for reading,
-alex
So here's a few thoughts just in case it may help some people out there. If this is not relevant, than feel free to discard this post; I'd rather share, though, at the risk of repitition, rather than withhold possible insight that could help.
okay...
1. The biggest lesson I learned is that there is no "preset" that holds noise down in all shots. In other words, EVERY single scene needs to be tweaked to pull down the noise. This is contrary to what I originally thought: that certian settings always pull noise. Depends on the colors/luma so experimentation is the only way to optimize your scene.
2. For some reason. In some programs (I use scopebox and flipflop), preview over firewire shows far more macro blocks than are recorded to to the P2 media. I do not know why this is, but dissapointing noisey footage that I previewed for focus @ 1:1 pixels looked much better once recorded and viewed on the same monitor.
3. B. Press makes an insane difference in noise, BUT with detail @ -7 (v detail too) and coring to +7, cine-like D doesn't make a HUGE difference. B.Press with these settings has less of an advantage with these detail settings in my tests.
4. This may be the most helpful: I love to use warm colors, and use warmcards to bias the white balance. I wanted to see if this affects noise. It DOES NOT... BUT, a very warm card can bias the white to saturate color enough that it exceeds the "punch" of cinelike Matrix. So, you can use a warm card with the normal matrix instead of cinelike matrix and save a good deal of chroma noise.
5. 1080pa versus 720pn: It's not much, but in b.press to b.press, 1080pa had a slight, but noticable advantage in terms of noise/grain.
6. Master Ped makes a big difference, BUT NOT ALWAYS. Check to make sure. This camera seems to be all about nearly infinite in-cam flexibility, and every permutation changes the game, but M.Ped seems to be especially dependant on other settings in terms of introducing noise. (I don't remember the exact tests, but that was the definite conclusion.)
7. Last but not least: Zooming in to mid-tone or low/midtone areas, most prone to noise, turning on focus assist, and EVF DTL give a very good indication of noise. This is especially helpful for people like me who often shoot run and gun. Surprisingly I found (as I stated above) that firewire preview is not very accurate (at least on Mac) FOR ME. Results may very, and this is only my experience.
I hope this helps some people out there. Especially those who shoot in mostly natural light, like me. I love the look of a natural picture, even with grain. To give you an idea, I think the most beautifully shot film was easily Eyes Wide Shut. Everytime I watch it I am in awe of how dreamlike and real it looks at the same time. For me it was the perfect blend for the suspention of disbelief.
BTW, I apologize in advance for my poor spelling. Again, I hope this helps.
I know that after tonight's tests I have a whole new love for this great little camera. I had been very concerned about grain for shots I need in the dark for an upcoming project, but those fears are gone after I've seen what this thing can do with proper modification.
The biggest difference to me between the DVX and the HVX (besides the obvious), is that the DVX looked wonderful no matter what, if not a little soft, but the HVX only yields "usable" images, unless you give it a lot of care, then it gives you magic. It needs love, light, and lots of attention for best results; but once that is established, man oh man, no wonder panasonic hasn't updated it. It's pretty wonderful.
I hope they do bring it to 1/2" imagers, but hopefully CCDs, the filmlike motion they (panny) give is pretty amazing. I can't think of any other device that has the same quality/size/weight ratio. Not to compare apples to oranges, but RED is bigger and heavier, not by a lot, but it's certianly not smaller. And I'm thinking to myself that some people like myself really need SMALL run and gun devices.
Scarlet? HVX300? HVX200A?
All I know is that I'm a lucky filmmaker to live in this day and age.
Thanks for reading,
-alex
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