Softness in Footage with FS100

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Prophetmatt

Well-known member
Hi All,

Here short videos that I've been working with in editing footage/color grading.

http://vimeo.com/39675228- This clip is meant to be low contrast, saturation, etc. This is shot with a James Miller PP

http://vimeo.com/38708353- This video is shot with the CPF PP

http://vimeo.com/36905409- This is shot with the Glencolor PP

My concern is that many of these seem fairly "soft" IMO. It may be that the shots with low contrast look soft due my brain using contrast/sharpness together. It could also be the lighting as well, or a combination of both. I know with more of the profiles that the detail is tuned down, except for the James Miller which is a bit higher than the others.

With that being said,

Can someone explain to me the detail settings in the camera menu to make things a little more clear to me as to what each setting does?

Lenses that are used are a 50-150mm Sigma 2.8, Tokina 11-16mm and a Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 Non-VC, all nikon mount.

Looking at the new Philip Bloom FS100 video, it started to really make me think about his sharpness in the video vs mine. Once I reviewed other videos from Frank and James, theirs seem to look a little "sharper" than mine as well.

Help would be appreciated!

Thank you.
 
Also when you add sharpening in post, what is your workflow? I'm using AE and PP CS5. I understand that when you push the unsharpen mask too far you begin to create outlines, but other than that, I'm stuck!
 
I usually use Detail +2. Doesn´t add more aliasing. Phillip Bloom goes up to +4

What we really could use is a well made sharpening tutorial for Premiere or Final cut...how to use the unsharp mask tool properly on AVCHD material from the FS100 or AF100.
 
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Thank you Felix! I will be trying this out! and yes, I agree. I haven't done much research on sharpening footage but I've seen the effects of messing around with the unsharp mask tool in AE.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here…..maybe the shots seem soft because your focus wasn't dead on? On the 3rd clip around 1:05, the dude appears to be in focus for an instant, so it is possible to achieve it with your camera/setup. Some other shots seem sharper than others.

There are some nice shots in here, but yes I agree, much softness. I love the one where the guy bonks that pillar thingy on the skis. The fog is cool.

Do you have any kind of EVF for outdoor shooting? I would think it would be tough to maintain critical focus in this environment, but I've certainly seen nice examples online. (boarding & skiing)
 
You know, that could very much be the issue as well. I would put money on it that you are correct with the focusing. I normally use a CMR Blackbird for stabilization while skiing behind. In the sun, the LCD is hard to see, maybe I should work on solving that issue first and it may aid to future projects.

:) thanks for the quick responses!
 
I haven't been bold enough to try any "action sports" type stuff with my FS100 yet. Maybe some skateboarding as the weather gets better here in the Northeast. I've had some success with my t2i in past years as long as I keep the focus in check.

Back in the day it was a lot easier, just put the camera on autofocus...plus the deep DOF was working to your favor. I have a bunch of cool snowboarding videos we shot in the 90's when I lived in Summit County, CO. But they are on hi-8. Nowheres near as cool as the stuff people post now.
 
That sounds interesting! I love watching old school snowboarding videos if you have any online! Also, do you have any recommendations for EVFS for the fs100 that would be able to fly on the cmr?
 
I'd have to agree with Deepfocus88 in that the focus doesn't seem dead on.

Have you tried using the peaking feature? I've found it helps a lot when using wider lenses that are more difficult to eyeball focus using the LCD.

Also, try and find and set your lens' hyperfocal distance, then as long as you maintain your specific distance from the subject, you should be in focus from there to infinity.
 
6950600291_43703a1d46_b.jpg


Screen grab from the Leukemia Ball Event.

I was at +0 Detail and around like +9DB I think perhaps more.
Will be doing a bit more playing around at higher detail levels
for event coverage. Currently a huge fan of crazy sharp
videos, especially for event coverage. Most of the footage
is 80-200 Nikon F/2.8 which is a current favorite in terms of
lenses.

@FelixGER
I wasn't aware Philip went to such high levels of detail in camera
was under the impression people were staying quite clear of
in-camera sharpening. Perhaps I shouldn't be keeping my levels
at -3 anymore and going up to +0 or higher like in my previous
example.

I shied away from doing so recently without really testing
it at higher levels to see how I liked it. Maybe tests are in
order again?

Will keep my workflow a bit quicker perhaps as well. Unsharp mask
has seemed to make render times a bit long...especially on the
recent 1+ hour Lacrosse Lower State Championship match on Wednesday...
 
I am going to fiddle around with sharpness levels over the next few days. I'm hoping that it may help to solve the issue. I love the profiles but same as you stance, I'm really wanting very sharp looking footage. Do you remember what PP your screen grab is from?
 
Matthew/Stance Media Custom PP:

Black Level: -5 (Set according to scene)
Gamma: ITU709
Black Gamma: High 0
Knee: 100 -1 or 102.5 -1 (I avoid lower settings to keep skins tones realistic and not plastic like)
Color Mode: Cinematone 1 +8
Color Level: 0 (If red channel oversaturates turn this setting down a bit)
Color Phase: -3
Color Depth: 0 (If I'm not comfortable with the look I use Frank's GLog B settings, I prefer the old version however you can use the new settings if you like them better)
WB Shift: Defaults of 0
Detail: +0 or More (Set desired amount -- apparently up to +4 is acceptable?)

Leukemia Ball Post (DVXuser) - With more screengrabs and information.

This is my custom PP I made that is shoot it and deliver. Skin tones are accurate not too
much red with an appropriate white balance. I haven't messed with the knee 105/0 settings yet however
from the respected community members, it sounds to be the best setting. My 100/-1 or 102.5/-1
has been giving me good highlights as of recently however.

Still looking to test more detail and 105/0 for a knee. Just recently shot some skateboard footage
at 60p with an 8mm fish-eye (Rokinon -- a really good wide but not too distorted lens). Doing some
minor editing with it. Was shot in a skate park with poor quality lights overhead. Wide lens meant
you saw the source and naturally it burned out however it wasn't harsh and discolored. Seemed to stay
white even some footage I shot the other day at the Flowertown Festival in harsh daylight good highlights.

I see comments about highlights being handled crappily by the camera a lot however I was/am? more
disappointed with the red color handling. Especially with skin tones. And I've got that for the most
part under control it seems.

Oh and here is my profile with -3 detail on a cheap 8mm Rokinon (screen grab no correction or any
editing @+12db)

FSFlip_bank.jpg


kickflip_bank.jpg


With unsharp mask it looks pretty clean...especially for such a cheap lens and only 125 shutter as I couldn't go higher. I was already at
a pretty high gain setting @f/3.5 as wide as the lens opens.

I would love the resolving power of the FS700 however I feel that there is pretty good untapped power in the FS100. Again I'm looking
to find out where it is and with what settings but currently I'm quite happy.
 
FS100 Screenshot.jpg
Above is a screenshot with a James Miller profile. I bumped the detail up to 2. LOVE IT now. Everything is in focus and it's much sharper.
 
On top of everything discussed. One note I made from the first video linked - image seems a little flat - thats OK as a start - but if you added more contrast to the image it would have a sharper appearance.
 
Thank you Noel. I've noticed that too. Going back through some of my projects, I've been using the reference monitor in CS5 deal with the shadows and such. I'm still a bit new to grading but I'm getting the hang of it more now than ever. Everyones tips have helped out a lot!

Wannebeapilot: I've changed the knee to 102.5 or 105 and the detail to +2. I haven't tested it out other than this morning as an overcast day, but I seem to like the detail change.

BLK LVL: +5
GAM: CINEMATONE1
BLK GAM: RANGE:MID LV L: +3
KNEE: MAN / 95% / -2
COLOR MODE: CINEMATONE2 / LVL: 8
COLOR LEVEL -2
COLOR DEPTH: Y -2
WB SHIFT: LB-CC / LB -3
DETAIL LVL: +1 / MAN: V/H BAL 0 / B/W BAL TYPE3 / LIMIT 7 / CRISP 0 / Hi-LiGHT 1​
 
To get the best out of the codec dial out any in-camera sharpening.

Sharpening is faux detail and sharp edges take a disproportionate bit-rate to encode and will result in the codec falling apart much sooner. Once macro blocking noise is in your footage you'll have to live with it and may become really obvious, for example, when you add a gradient to the sky.

IMHO sharpening is best added on a scene by scene basis in post even if you are recording to a low compression external box as once it's baked in the footage it's pretty difficult to take out.
 
I agree with adding in post. However in the settings within the fs100, my needs and wants suggest I should bump the sharpening up +1 or 2 from those set by others picture profiles. They seem to be originally too soft so when I go to add sharpening with an unsharpen mask I tend to get a ghosting outline very quickly without reaching a level that I like. In the screen **** case with detail at +2 I reaches my desired sharpness in camera with any other work. Haven't tested how far you can take it yet though.
 
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