FS7: So what IS the OMB ENG solution..

icarusfilm said:
In the end of you need the range and versatility of an ENG camera there is some good news - they still sell ENG cameras!
It's kind of like getting a large format camera and then try to use it for street photography. I'm not saying you can't but you and your client have to adapt or pay a shitload carry a shitload and have stressful time.
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Absolutely correct. But in a large section of the industry there is a mindset that one needs to be on s35. Or at least a want to be on s35. Even when it probably isn't called for. Clients like the look of s35 enough that they are willing to shoot on s35 even though doing so will be a handicap for some of the acquisition. They don't much care that it is at times a pain for the DP / Op to perform lens swaps. And they have decided that missing shots is just part of the nature of the s35 beast, as it is today. It is a sacrifice they are willing to make for the look of s35, for the shallow DoF look. Or they are oblivious to the fact that shooting s35 means they won't get the same acquisition they would on 2/3". Some of it is the fad, the trendiness of s35. It is what you shoot if you are on the cutting edge...if you are doing high-quality work. In the mind of many clients 2/3" is "old school" and "last century".

That has worked its way through much of video production. Even to corporate video. Just about every corporate client I hear from these days wants Fs7, F5, or C300. About the only genre not requesting s35 is multi-cam switched content. Sports or live speaker events for corporate. When it comes to "ENG", almost everyone wants s35 save for maybe the local news stations.

If you tell a client that for an additional charge you can provide them with a Canon 17-120mm and as a result better coverage of events can be obtained, the clients will almost always balk at the additional cost and just live with the missed coverage resulting from the EF lens game that most are fully used to by now and has become the de facto method of shooting.


We aren't the first to encounter this issue of a lack of do-all zoom of satisfactory speed and performance. It is a reason many still photographers work with 2 cameras on their person, each with a different zoom mounted. They switch back and forth between the two cameras because that is faster than swapping out lenses. Many sports photogs do that and also many Set Photogs on feature films. Having to use a blimp on the camera makes lens swaps particularly problematic. So they just carry around two cameras.
 
I can definitely agree with JP's statements regarding people wanting stuff shot on s35 cameras that don't necessarily lend themselves to the style of shoot they have planned. It happens a ton. Being as prepared as you can be, as a shooter, I think is paramount. Having a few rokinon primes in my kit has been great in times when the 24-105 with speed booster just wasn't quite cutting it for the interview shot. "Hey let me try a different lens I think I can make that background softer for you" - boom, client happy, problem solved, easy day. I've also been in the situation where you are screwed, the 24-105 isn't long enough and you have to stop down a quick second, push a few buttons, engage crop mode, and then move on. It's another example of "my kit saving my shoot"

But I definitely take away from this thread that the jobs you agree to, are the jobs that are going to keep coming your way. That's some sound advice I need to take!


Also, I still want a fujinon 18-55, my shoot today would have been great with that lens, I was annoyed by changing sunlight in the background of a quick interview and not being able to click click through my aperture wheel.


I love the activity in the fs7 section lately, really good discussions and lots of various view points in here. We all use this camera so differently, its great.
 
You know even if you were to magically solve that problem the client nets will immediately find a new way of being a pain in the ass: "What do you mean you can't run the gimbal and two drones at the same time?"

QUOTE=JPNola;1986688738]Absolutely correct. But in a large section of the industry there is a mindset that one needs to be on s35. Or at least a want to be on s35. Even when it probably isn't called for. Clients like the look of s35 enough that they are willing to shoot on s35 even though doing so will be a handicap for some of the acquisition. They don't much care that it is at times a pain for the DP / Op to perform lens swaps. And they have decided that missing shots is just part of the nature of the s35 beast, as it is today. It is a sacrifice they are willing to make for the look of s35, for the shallow DoF look. Or they are oblivious to the fact that shooting s35 means they won't get the same acquisition they would on 2/3". Some of it is the fad, the trendiness of s35. It is what you shoot if you are on the cutting edge...if you are doing high-quality work. In the mind of many clients 2/3" is "old school" and "last century".

That has worked its way through much of video production. Even to corporate video. Just about every corporate client I hear from these days wants Fs7, F5, or C300. About the only genre not requesting s35 is multi-cam switched content. Sports or live speaker events for corporate. When it comes to "ENG", almost everyone wants s35 save for maybe the local news stations.

If you tell a client that for an additional charge you can provide them with a Canon 17-120mm and as a result better coverage of events can be obtained, the clients will almost always balk at the additional cost and just live with the missed coverage resulting from the EF lens game that most are fully used to by now and has become the de facto method of shooting.


We aren't the first to encounter this issue of a lack of do-all zoom of satisfactory speed and performance. It is a reason many still photographers work with 2 cameras on their person, each with a different zoom mounted. They switch back and forth between the two cameras because that is faster than swapping out lenses. Many sports photogs do that and also many Set Photogs on feature films. Having to use a blimp on the camera makes lens swaps particularly problematic. So they just carry around two cameras.[/QUOTE]
 
Icarus- my client is me :)

I set the bar on the shoots I'm describing- two reasons- to over deliver - but most important I get frustrated when my kit can't keep up with my mind - I'm seeing shots I want go for ever - will I get fired for missing them? No. Will there be some edit challenges? Probably
But the trickle down is a rep- we hire SMM and he seems to get stuff while hiring ABC he is always in his lens bag at the decisive moment.


As for interviews - subject distance is very subjective - personally I like to be close because it is intimate - but not so close I'm casting shadows on the subject.

Good chats
 
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morgan_moore said:
Icarus- my client is me :)

I set the bar on the shoots I'm describing- two reasons- to over deliver - but most important I get frustrated when my kit can't keep up with my mind - I'm seeing shots I want go for ever - will I get fired for missing them? No. Will there be some edit challenges? Probably
But the trickle down is a rep- we hire SMM and he seems to get stuff while hiring ABC he is always in his lens bag at the decisive moment.


As for interviews - subject distance is very subjective - personally I like to be close because it is intimate - but not so close I'm casting shadows on the subject.

Good chats
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Morgan.. just curious.. you have said a few times now.. not cast a shadow on your subject in interviews.. with the classic 3/4 soft key.. you would have to be very very close to actually cast a shadow on your subject.. like 12 inches or less..no..? .. not a dig !.. just curious as to what u mean by casting a shadow..

Thanks
 
Ben Scott said:
I don't think I have ever shot an interview at over 100mm in my life.
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That may just speak to the style of interviews you're shooting. Here(US), a typical net interview: three cams, center wide shot on a slider/dolly, talent shot ISO/dirty-two and main subject ISO typically tight(anywhere between collar bones/top of head to eyes/chin), so the subject cross shot can usually be anywhere from 100mm to 200mm. I used my 17-120 on Monday and was around 100mm, I believe. Usually my #1 interview lens is my CN-E 135mm. But last week, I shot a set of interviews over three days all in separate locations and used my 50mm for every one. It just all depends...
 
markfpv said:
Just a quick note about that no audio thing.... my a6300 is capable of shooting 120fps and records audio while doing so... go figure
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Yeah, go figure. My iPhone 6, and now 7, records audio married to video at 240fps. $800 phone, but my $40k VariCam and $30K F55 can't. What?
 
Sam, I'd offer to try to shoot a down and dirty comparison test for IQ samples of 2/3" HD ENG zooms and s35 zooms, but my 17-120 is stuck in transit, because of the severe winter weather in the Midwest and Northeast here in the US, on the way to service to have the eUMS mount system installed and a friend in Chicago has my HDx35 adapter testing it for an upcoming shoot. So it may be a few weeks before I have everything back in-house at this rate.
 
I'm resigned to just having to carry a bunch of lenses. The idea of the 18-110 for doc or ENG type work is very appealing over the 24-105 though which I couldn't stand. I just realize that I will need a faster 24-70 with speedster nearby for low light doc work , and a 70-200, and fast 85 and 50 primes as well for interviews.. - Oh yeah not to mention the 11-16. Damn its a big lens bag. However it won't be necessary to have them all on me all the time but usually at least a couple. That's just the way it is.
 
LennyLevy said:
I'm resigned to just having to carry a bunch of lenses. The idea of the 18-110 for doc or ENG type work is very appealing over the 24-105 though which I couldn't stand. I just realize that I will need a faster 24-70 with speedster nearby for low light doc work , and a 70-200, and fast 85 and 50 primes as well for interviews.. - Oh yeah not to mention the 11-16. Damn its a big lens bag. However it won't be necessary to have them all on me all the time but usually at least a couple. That's just the way it is.
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Yep, Lenny.

That's the basic kit. Generally speaking: 11-16 Tokina, 16-35mm Canon or 18-35mm Sigma, Canon 24-70mm, Canon 70-200mm. Then a couple of primes for interviews. Typically a 50mm and an 85mm. One variation / addition in the above being the Canon 24-105mm with speed booster.

That isn't my kit exactly. I was just going down the list of what seems to be the most common lens package.

A big benefit of the Sony 18-100mm is par-focal. Not having to significantly refocus every time you come out wide on a subject or go in tight. Being able to pre-set the focus for the tights. That's huge. You are of course still going to be riding focus. But more just doing "touch ups" and subtle critical focus alteration. Not complete refocusing with each significant change in focal length. The lack of tromboning- that is also a plus for anyone wanting to use a matte box. And of course the manual iris.
 
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Len
Yep a shadow - the light is hard - my dled with a little frost (the light must go In my sticks bag

Yep in a small space everyone is jammed real close
 
11-16 - I currently prefer the worse 10-24 (which I bought 'for a joke') - I like the extra reach.

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RnG thanks for the offer.

"Stuck in transit" intersting! That lens is a bit big imo - I would want mine hand luggage size - because - I wouldn't want it 'stuck in transit which kind of kills its performance.

I've used it appreciate it and don't need convincing of its optical merits - it's just too big
 
My standard kit is 10-24 50 boosted 28-85 50-300 and another small prime. My desire is to dump the 28-85 and swap in a new zoom. This all goes in a billinghham bag on my shoulder.

--
My second bag is miller sticks bag with solo legs and arrow 25 head a flimsy light stand dled 4.0 a scrap of frost and cto
I also want to dump my miller arrow 25 head for something lighter - that is for a differen thread :)
I have a mangrotty head but find it too putrid to use.

I'd also consider dumping the fs7 for the fs5.

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To be clear this is my omb set up. Othe jobs with crew I do the full ton.
 
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JPNola said:
Yep, Lenny.

That's the basic kit. Generally speaking: 11-16 Tokina, 16-35mm Canon or 18-35mm Sigma, Canon 24-70mm, Canon 70-200mm. Then a couple of primes for interviews. Typically a 50mm and an 85mm. One variation / addition in the above being the Canon 24-105mm with speed booster.

That isn't my kit exactly. I was just going down the list of what seems to be the most common lens package.

A big benefit of the Sony 18-100mm is par-focal. Not having to significantly refocus every time you come out wide on a subject or go in tight. Being able to pre-set the focus for the tights. That's huge. You are of course still going to be riding focus. But more just doing "touch ups" and subtle critical focus alteration. Not complete refocusing with each significant change in focal length. The lack of tromboning- that is also a plus for anyone wanting to use a matte box. And of course the manual iris.
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But how do you carry all those lenses around with you when your shooting..?
 
Don - clearly I'm not len.
I have a billomgham packington bag which takes three lenses up to 24-105 size in custom dividers I sowed, under them fit 2 vlaock batts, the pockets are audio leads and a bin liner for weather - an can wedge another prime between the v locks but it is not protected properly
On the side of the bag I have a Lopro pouch which takes my 50-300 95mm front - 30 long - my new zoom would habe to go in that pouch and id probably lose the 50-300 for my 180 prime -
 
morgan_moore said:
Don - clearly I'm not len.
I have a billomgham packington bag which takes three lenses up to 24-105 size in custom dividers I sowed, under them fit 2 vlaock batts, the pockets are audio leads and a bin liner for weather - an can wedge another prime between the v locks but it is not protected properly
On the side of the bag I have a Lopro pouch which takes my 50-300 95mm front - 30 long - my new zoom would habe to go in that pouch and id probably lose the 50-300 for my 180 prime -
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Yeah but when your actually shooting.. following your subject out of the building.. into another.. down the hall.. or just hand held in a crowded area.. who is lugging the lenses around.. .. or even guarding them.. thats what I dont get.. you need them on you to change them ..nes par..?
 
I will even swap while rolling to hold audio - here the booster is a good thing because you are not exposing the sensor to the elements.

Billomgham is crucial - rucksacks are for losers
 
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