So there's no AF100 Successor - Now what?

Mac said:
The JVC was such an exciting prospect, I have MFT lenses, MFT adapted prime lenses, EF lenses, S16 zoom lenses, Z-Finders. I could have used everything I own, and they limit it to 8 bit and H.264? Really?
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If 8-bit H.264's not good enough, you'll just have to bite the bullet with a ProRes camera/recorder. It's unrealistic to expect a prosumer camcorder to offer more than 8-bit in 4K - the file sizes are just too freaking huge. The JVC LS-300 does offer the next best thing: 8-bit 4:2:2 color in 1080p modes, and yes, it does make a perceptible difference in some cases.
 
Lpowell said:
If 8-bit H.264's not good enough, you'll just have to bite the bullet with a ProRes camera/recorder. It's unrealistic to expect a prosumer camcorder to offer more than 8-bit in 4K - the file sizes are just too freaking huge. The JVC LS-300 does offer the next best thing: 8-bit 4:2:2 color in 1080p modes, and yes, it does make a perceptible difference in some cases.
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I saw the camera last night. The viewfinder isnt that great but the MFT mount is interesting and the sensor can be cropped to work with MFT lenses. Dont know if IQ takes a hit when you do that. As for 10bit? I think most folks dont really need it. 4:2:2 is very helpful.
 
Well I took the lack of a successor as a sorely needed opportunity to upgrade my audio gear. Now instead of obsessing over which camera I should get (fs7, Ursa mini, etc.) I can enjoy some new audio toys and feel ok waiting another year!
 
EidolonFilms said:
Well I took the lack of a successor as a sorely needed opportunity to upgrade my audio gear. Now instead of obsessing over which camera I should get (fs7, Ursa mini, etc.) I can enjoy some new audio toys and feel ok waiting another year!
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heh... I'm getting lighting and a gimbal myself ;)

Probably also rent the LS300 the first opportunity that makes sense, on a project that could likely do just as well without it, just to test it out.
 
Erik Naso said:
I saw the camera last night. The viewfinder isnt that great but the MFT mount is interesting and the sensor can be cropped to work with MFT lenses. Dont know if IQ takes a hit when you do that. As for 10bit? I think most folks dont really need it. 4:2:2 is very helpful.
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Erik-
I think the best way to look at it is how some people shoot in 4K because they can zoom in to re-frame. The idea that you could go in up to 75% and and still basically have 1080....so, in what we've seen and shot so far, going in 20% to the 80% mark (for MFT) did not appear to have any issues being it is a 4K chip.

Jim Martin

ps- good to see you at NAB!
 
Dave Rochelle said:
Here's where I'm at personally:

Features like 4K, 120fps, and higher bit rate recording are all "wants" for me right now, not "needs." In other words, I am not yet losing jobs in my market by using the gear I currently have. An AF200 would have likely made me adopt a new camera sooner than I absolutely needed to - if it had offered anything close to the rumored improvements over the AF100... but I have decided to stay put for probably the next year now. The one thing I do need for an upcoming gig is an ultra-wide angle lens... so if anyone out there is moving on from m43 and would like to unload their Lumix 7-14, send me a pm.

As for what else is out there that I might look into a year from now:

JVC LS300
pros: Very intriguing the system they've designed for mapping lenses onto the sensor. Great to keep my collection of m43 glass active and economical not having to invest in new lens format. No real issues with JVC products in the past - owned and loved the original HD100
cons: Have not seen any footage thus far that impresses me. Seems to exhibit same highlight handling and exposure issues that have annoyed me about AF100. I don't want to buy a new camera at this point that doesn't give at least 11-12 stops of actual real world DR... so jury still out for me on this cam until I see more footage.

Blackmagic Ursa Minor
pros: love the size & form-factor. Love the VF concept. In photos and on paper this looks like a killer cam.
cons: uncertain about Blackmagic vs. a Sony or Panny pro camera. Can I take it out of the bag 5 days a week every week for 3+ years and have it just work? Every single time? Plain and solid reliable pro performance is something I haven't heard from the same percentage of Blackmagic users as with other brands. No built-in NDs would impact my workflow to the point that alone will probably stop me from seriously considering this cam.

Sony FS7
Pricey for me - but seems like good investment and all-around workhorse cam for what I do that would justify the investment. The kit 28-135 would not do for me - I need a short/wide zoom for 75% of the stuff I shoot and fast primes for the rest. A little larger size-wise than I would prefer, but if I had to buy a new cam today I'm half sure this would be the choice. The other half...

Canon C100/300
Again have to buy all new lenses, but even if I got the FS7 I would probably start investing in Canon EF glass at this point. I really love the footage I've seen from these cameras, and love the low-light performance I've read about. I've only used the C500 and only on a tripod, but the form factor looks like it would suit me. Just would have to kit it out more than the FS7 to make it handle the way I want.


Whichever way I end up going, I foresee keeping my m43 glass active on GH3/4 as b-cam or for certain types of shoots - so not a total loss switching formats. I just mourn the likely loss of m43 as a legit system for a pro cine/video camera. As someone who used to shoot BetcamSP for news but whose back isn't as young as it used to be, m43 allows a great compromise between image quality and the size/weight of the equipment necessary to get it. The AF100 with the Voigtlanders gives me the thinnest DoF I would ever want for interviews & artistic shots, but with the Panny 12-35 also gives me the larger DoF I need for run & gun. Guess I'll milk everything I can out of it.
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Hi Dave, great post. I'm in exactly the same boat as I'm sure many others are.

I'm very happy with my GX7/GH3/GH4 setup and love the image quality, features and size of m43. However, I am currently researching for a new A Cam for my business, something designed bottom-up for video that will fit with my current set up, make filming easier with its ergonomics and features, and tick a few more boxes for the type of work I do. An AF200 would have been the perfect candidate.

I'm in no rush either, but towards the end of the year would be a logical timing to invest in a new A camera. I was planning to invest in some more m43 glass this year too but unfortunately, without an AF200 on the horizon, I'm a little hesitant.

I feel exactly the same about the other 4 cameras you mentioned, with the Canon C100 Mk2 personally ticking the most boxes for me. But, yes... if I do go that route it will be a sad day relegating the fantastic m43 system to B Cam. And it doesn't excite me having to do more matching of looks in post either.

What a conundrum =). Maybe Panasonic have a surprise up their sleeve like the OP alluded to. I hope so, I think users would pile a load more money into native glass if they did release such a camera.
 
Lpowell said:
It's unrealistic to expect a prosumer camcorder to offer more than 8-bit in 4K - the file sizes are just too freaking huge.
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I disagree. If 10-bit 4K were a drill-down option, the soccer mom could use the default 8-bit codec and anyone needing 10-bit could use that.
 
Tye said:
Do you really think a soccer Mom would be packing a $3000-$5000 cam?
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My sister bought a Canon 5D Mk3 and a Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM lens to take pictures and video of her sons playing hockey. She's a housewife and doesn't use the camera for anything other than family snapshots.

So yes, some moms will have cameras in this price range. ( though not if they are complicated to operate, everything has to be on program or AUTO )
 
I read somewhere else (and can't find it again now) that they stated they just didn't feel they could execute built-in ND's properly at this stage in the company's development - but that it might be something they add to future designs. The more I think about what the Ursa Mini offers, the more I really like the idea. The EF mount with a set of Rokinon Cine primes and a short Canon IS zoom would be a pretty great all-around kit for most of my purposes. Guess I'm already looking forward to a possible 2nd version with the built-in ND's and a year or so of feedback from early adopters as to how this cam performs with day-to-day use. I did find more than one suggestion from past & present Blackmagic users that there is not much (if any) product support after their warranty expires - which is troubling. I have no substantiation from Blackmagic about that as of yet - trying to find out more details.
 
I’m re thinking my disappointment about not getting a 4K interchangeable lens replacement for the AF100 and now taking a careful look at the AG-DVX200. https://vimeo.com/125020010 note the comment that Panasonic is using the same or a similar video engine in the AG-DVX200 that they use in the GH4. I’m thinking this might be a perfect 4K combination; a fully rigged GH4 and the AG-DVX200 for run and gun.

View attachment 100763
 
If the cyclops gets a cataract...your screw'd....otherwise I would go for it....

Cheers
 
Vardalos said:
I’m re thinking my disappointment about not getting a 4K interchangeable lens replacement for the AF100 and now taking a careful look at the AG-DVX200. https://vimeo.com/125020010 note the comment that Panasonic is using the same or a similar video engine in the AG-DVX200 that they use in the GH4. I’m thinking this might be a perfect 4K combination; a fully rigged GH4 and the AG-DVX200 for run and gun.

View attachment 100763
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That being a 4:2:0 8 bit internal recording?? Hmmmm they can do better.....
 
Vardalos said:
I’m re thinking my disappointment about not getting a 4K interchangeable lens replacement for the AF100 and now taking a careful look at the AG-DVX200. https://vimeo.com/125020010 note the comment that Panasonic is using the same or a similar video engine in the AG-DVX200 that they use in the GH4. I’m thinking this might be a perfect 4K combination; a fully rigged GH4 and the AG-DVX200 for run and gun.

View attachment 100763
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I have to say this image is a proof of concept for the DVX200 design! Franken rigs are a tough sell these days.
 
Bassman2003 said:
I have to say this image is a proof of concept for the DVX200 design! Franken rigs are a tough sell these days.
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I'm with you on that...........it's hard to beat a traditional video camera for 99% of the work that comes along. Offering one with a big sensor and reasonably fast lens takes care of the rest.
 
That is way I see the DVX200, a work camera. Interchangeable lens models are more important for more involved projects, but a lot of "work work" will be a great fit for the fixed lens, easy to use design.
 
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