So once again: 1080 usable or not?

snicky

snicky

Active member
I'm a bit confused here. After moving to Taiwan I was supposed to buy GH-1 immediately (last month I bought 2 FDs and the adapter from Ciecio7), but when I finally installed my router and started to read dvxuser then ... the nightmare called 7D have started. The simple question is SHOULD I WAIT FOR 7D? I think I read all of the topics about the mud issues and the conclusion I found is... 'ehmp, ooh, yyy... it's OK unless you wont go any higher than 720p'. So what tha XXXX with 1080p? People say that even if there is no mud it's still unusable due to some blocking artifacts which prevents you from doing any color correction... That means GH-1 is a 720p only camera unless I want to shoot my pets? Is there anyone who uses 1080p for any "proper" recording?


My thoughts about GH-1 and 7D:


GH-1
+ price
+ variety of lenses
+ AF with the kit lens
+ LCD
- unusable 1080p (?)
- mud even in 720p

7D
+ higher bitrate = no mud = usable 1080p (?)
+ framerates
+ Canon lenses (if you want to upgrade your system, you only need to buy a new body)
- price
- no AF
- LCD
 
GH-1
- pulldown removal for 1080
- no external monitoring

7D
+ aps-c (1.6x vs. GH-1's 2x crop factor)
- possible aliasing in 720
~ jello?

what are you shooting? narrative, documentary? What's your destination? Film festivals? DVD? Youtube/Vimeo? Why do you need 1080?

Mud issue is overblown for me. If it shows up in 720p/60, it's barely noticeable. While everyone on dvxuser is trained to spot mud from a mile away, your average youtube/vimeo/film festival user will never notice or won't care.
 
First let me say, like you, I was meant to buy the GH1, and use it with a Canon FD 50mm f1.4 (which I specifically bought for the GH1).

Now, if you have the patience (though mine is crumbling), wait it out like me (and I'm sure a few other people too) to see if the Canon 7D truly is as great as people are saying it will be.

The main concern for the 7D, for me anyway, is rolling-shutter (jello). I filmed a war scene a few months ago on a 3CCD based camera, and it turned out awesome. I simulated the style used in the opening scene of "Saving Private Ryan" (slight to moderate shaking and quick camera movement). I know that if I were to try and do this on the Canon 5DMarkII (for example), or other CMOS based DSLR's, it would have been jello-city - it would have been impossible/ugly as all f**k. From what I've seen so far, the GH1 720P @ 50FPS has the least amount of jello from CMOS based DSLRs (supposedly it's MJPEG mode is jello free...?).

I think the "mud" issue has been severely blown out of proportion. I've watched and download hundreds of GH1 clips, and I'm yet to see "mud".

Also, the constant bashing of the 17mb bitrate also seems to have been blown out of proportion. I'll tell you now man, indie filmmakers suffer from bitching - ME INCLUDED (I'm perhaps the biggest ***** of them all cause I'm an unemployed student with a extremely tight budget). We nitpick everything to hell. AVCHD is about ten-times better then miniDV and HDV compression. Go and rent Danny Boyle's "28 Days Later". That was shot on miniDV @ 720 x 576. Sure, he had lighting and good lenses, but still, all the lighting and lenses in the world won't save you from miniDV compression and resolution. In other words, for DVD and web distribution, AVCHD @ 17mb is fine (hell, I've seen HDV @ 1280 x 720P blown-up and projected in a cinema and it looked pretty good).

Like all filmmakers will tell you - STORY IS KING. However, in regards to cinematography, I say wait it out and see how the 7D performs. Though if you can't, I think a GH1 + Canon FD's are a nice combination, and if used correctly, will be sure to give you beautiful imagery. You could always buy the GH1, use it, learn on it, sell it a few months later/a year down the track (or keep it), and then buy either the GH1's successor, the 7D, the 7D's successor, or God knows what else that will exist by then...

Hope this helped, good luck mate! :)
 
After waiting for the longest time I got my GH1 3 days ago and started making money with it the next day. If the 7D turns out as good as promised, which I think it will, I will get one with the money I'll make from my GH1. It will take the 7D as long, or longer, as it took for the GH1 to be available.
 
GH1 1080p is completely usable in 90% of cases.

It depends what you want to use it for and I imagine most will be doing web delivery at 720p so capture at 1080 and deliver at 720.

If you're going for projection at film festivals capture at 1080 and deliver at 1080 - just be careful of your camera movement.

Everything I have done on the GH1 is capture at 1080
 
"Mud" issue totally overblown. I'm not saying it will never happen, I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal.

I shot everything 1080 except for a couple scenes that were handheld and have had no mud at all. Just don't start whipping the camera around and avoid high detail shots with infinity focus. Get some cinema-like DOF in there and you should be okay.

Just remember this is a $1500 camera ($600 if you don't count the kit lens) so there's bound to be limitations. If you don't want limitations, get a more expensive camera that's completely designed for video and video only.
 
* correction on my post - I've shot 720 but only to get slow mo

I'm about to be guilty of bigging myself up here but this LINK is the most beautiful stuff I've ever shot on the GH1 and it was shot 1080 scaled for 720 web delivery.
It may stutter a bit if you don't have a fast processor as I uploaded a 5mbps file (a bit too high). Check it out and then see if you worry about mud.
 
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For me, relying on autofocus more than I should, that's more of an issue in 1080 than the mud thing. Focussing is definitely slower than in 720. But once you get reasonably up close and personal, the detail in the 720 shots is about all you want, particularly when it's faces. There's a limit to the detail I want of people's facial hair and pimples. 1080 remains king of the wide/scenic shot IMHO.
 
snicky said:
People say that even if there is no mud it's still unusable due to some blocking artifacts which prevents you from doing any color correction...
Click to expand...


What! Is this really true? So now, even if you're still careful to avoid mud, your footage will be unusable due to blocking artifacts?

Will someone "in the know" please chime in here and set the record straight!

lf I sound mad it's because I am. I just got my GH1 yesterday and am preparing to shoot my first feature (action drama) with intent to film out for Theatrical release. Does this "blocking artifacts" issue mean that a professional looking Theatrical showing is not possible?
 
I trust you're not going to use it 'for real' before you are thoroughly familiar with its capabilities from shoot to print. There's all sorts of wild claims made for and against the GH1 picture quality and at the end of the day, I'd suggest you trust nobody other than yourself on the matter. Record some stuff similar to the stuff you're going to be working with 'for real' and see how it fares in the postproduction workflow that you have in mind.

Since I got my GH1 weeks back I've probably spent fifty times the time on playing around with postpro workflow vs actually recording video with the thing, just working out what's possible and what's best (for me personally) before I get too ambitions with the sharp end (the GH1 itself).
 
Indyreel - in the right hands, the GH1 is more than capable of producing results that are good enough for a feature film. But as has been pointed out time and time again on this forum - if the story is good enough, you will be okay. A lot of films have succeeded on the big screen that were shot on far lesser formats than the GH1. Anything is possible.

To echo Ozpeter, you should shoot as much as you possibly can with the camera prior to using it for something important. That is the only way you will learn how it performs in different circumstances.
 
1080p is absolutely usable! You just have to shoot well. Get prime FDs, an adapter and use lights if you're scene is too dark. Use 1080 in static shots, use 720 in moving shots. Use DOF, you wont probably ever notice mud, if you wouldn't read about it in every second post on this forum.
If you get your GH1, let it run a few nights (turn eco mode off) and your bandings (if you have any) will most likely disappear. If they don't get, send it back and get another one. Be happy to have probably the best lens you ever had.
Shoot well, love your footage. This camera won't limit your creativity in any matter, if so, don't ever think to buy a GH1 and get at least a RED or pricier cameras. Put your GH1 into your backpack and be happy to have a HD-Cam when chilling around with friends.

I guess that's the "how to be a f*cking happy GH1 owner"-tutorial
 
>A lot of films have succeeded on the big screen that were shot on far lesser formats than the GH1

I think the "Buona Vista Club" by Wim Wenders was partially shot with small Sony Mini DV cameras. Great movie. But they also did some post-processing magic to the footage.
 
The camera does not matter at all if you have good script. When it was only Panasonic DVX and Canon Xl, people were raving all over about getting them.

The options we have available now are lot better then them.
 
and it's only going to get better. problem is most people who are shooters don't have good scripts so they go for the best gear rather than the best story. don't cater to the technophiliacs on this site, but people who care about character development, DIALOGUE and 3 part acts.
 
Huh... thank you for your replies. The point is that I will try to shoot some short documentary forms in which, I believe, image is the key, so I do need 1080p (TV is my first target, but maybe my work will end up on the web). Unfortunately, Im very worried about using GH-1 in places like this: http://www.vimeo.com/5898306 (look at the crowd, footage itself is a crap)... And I will need to do this, because otherwise I will loose a big part of the... "drama" :)
 
if TV is your target shoot 720p. that gives you 2 options to either shoot in 30p mjpeg which the codec won't break up, and 720p 60p which is just as good, but higher chance the codec will break up, but very little. i'd go with 720p 30p mjpeg since you won't need to go 24p out.
 
I'd go with 720p/60 AVCHD because I like the way it looks a little better than the MJPEG.

Yeah most TV is either 720p or 1080i and 720p is easily converted to 1080i.
 
snicky said:
So what tha XXXX with 1080p? People say that even if there is no mud it's still unusable due to some blocking artifacts which prevents you from doing any color correction... That means GH-1 is a 720p only camera unless I want to shoot my pets? Is there anyone who uses 1080p for any "proper" recording?
Click to expand...


Again, would someone "who knows for sure" please address the above quote which essentially states that even without mud, the footage is "still unusable due to some blocking artifacts which prevents you from doing any color correction... "
 
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