GH5 So close to grab the GH5S but..

For anyone looking to get into a new system, I'd argue that the lenses should be, if not the biggest factor, then the 2nd biggest factor.

That's where micro four thirds & Sony NEX has a massive advantage over the S series and Canon's R series. Dozens - maybe hundreds - of native lenses for those two systems.

I was very tempted by the S5, but the glass simply isn't there yet. Can't stand Canon's crippling, and their mirrorless lens selection is slim as well (although their adapter for EF glass is outstanding).

Le Chat Errant, sounds like you've ruled out everything but the GH5s, but still aren't sure. I think there's very little difference in image quality between the GH5 and the GH5s, and unless you're desperate for low light capability, that the IBIS of the GH5 makes it a vastly more usable camera for most shooters.

Why not rent the GH5s from lens rentals or some other company? Or buy from KEH.B&H/Roberts and return the camera if it's not your cup of tea?
 
jdv said:
Why not rent the GH5s from lens rentals or some other company? Or buy from KEH.B&H/Roberts and return the camera if it's not your cup of tea?
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I’m guessing these are American companies. However, the known universe extends beyond the East Coast.

I’ve also been trying to decide between the GH5S and GH5 – or even the G9 while waiting for a GH6. (If I had a G4, I think I would wait … but who knows. I don’t.)

From my research, the GH5S seems to have several advantages over the GH5:

  • 11.5 ms readout time (versus 15.0 ms for GH5 or 22.0 ms for the GH4 in 4K mode)
  • much better high-ISO performance
  • DCI 4K up to 59.94p
  • line-level audio in (but still no XLR input)
  • timecode jamming (via flash-synch port, special cable included)
  • USB-powered battery charger (but you still can’t charge the battery inside the camera. So I guess GH5 owners could buy the GH5S charger and get the same result)
  • V-Log-L enabled and LUT-corrected live display and playback option
  • oversized sensor: in DCI 4K mode, the camera has a frame width of about 19.3 mm. That’s getting close enough to Super35 that it’s hard to see the difference
  • OLPF (the benefit of this is not obvious in all tests but should be there for certain spatial frequencies)
  • 14-bit Raw stills (at lower resolution).

But the original GH5 is still compelling today, four years after its launch. And it’s significantly cheaper than the GH5S.

Another thought: why does the GH5S have a USB-C port and do nothing with it? Could Panasonic release a major firmware update (like the one for the G9) that allows ProRes RAW recording to a USB drive?
 
If your shooting style benefits from IBIS, then it is no brainer, get the GH5
If your shooting includes photography, then it is no brainer, get the GH5

Otherwise, get the GH5S if you don't mind the small bump in price.
 
For me, it’s not that simple. IBIS is sometimes helpful, but so is a sensor with less noise in low light. Panasonic makes you choose one or the other. (I guess the GH6 will fix this.)

Also, I’m lazy. Without IBIS I would be forced to use a tripod / gimbal / Steadicam. Maybe that would be good for me?

The decision is complicated by the continued availability of the much cheaper GH4 (in GH4R variant with V-Log-L) and G9 (with even better IBIS than the GH5 and 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 recording since the November 2019 firmware update). These cameras could postpone a final decision and/or save money.

Personally, I’m leaning toward getting a GH5S and using it for five years. But it’s taking me a long time to make up my mind …
 
What about the S5? For a few hundred euros more, you get IBIS *and* clean high ISOs. (Btw I have the GH5 and I love it but even with a speedbooster, its low-light performance pales in comparison to any full-frame camera or the GH5S or P4k.) The dynamic range of the S5 is probably way, way better than the GH5. I had the S1 for a while and it definitely had more DR than the GH5.

Or do you already own M43 lenses?
 
ahalpert said:
Or do you already own M43 lenses?
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Yeah, I have a kit of carefully chosen Micro Four Thirds lenses including fast zooms, long lenses, and tiny lenses that would be expensive and difficult to replace.

The hype is all full-frame, but I still like Micro Four Thirds and see no reason to dump it. If I covered events professionally it would be a different story. But I don’t.

I travel a good bit and try to own few and small possessions.

I should just get any lightweight camera and be done with this, but I like to make exactly the right choice and stick with it for years. Hate chopping and changing. Takes me a long time to get really comfortable with a new camera.
 
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Samuel Dilworth said:
For me, it’s not that simple. IBIS is sometimes helpful, but so is a sensor with less noise in low light. Panasonic makes you choose one or the other. (I guess the GH6 will fix this.)

Also, I’m lazy. Without IBIS I would be forced to use a tripod / gimbal / Steadicam. Maybe that would be good for me?

The decision is complicated by the continued availability of the much cheaper GH4 (in GH4R variant with V-Log-L) and G9 (with even better IBIS than the GH5 and 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 recording since the November 2019 firmware update). These cameras could postpone a final decision and/or save money.

Personally, I’m leaning toward getting a GH5S and using it for five years. But it’s taking me a long time to make up my mind …
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The GH5S sensor runs too hot, thus they couldn't include IBIS as well

Perhaps the GH6 will fix that? Doubt it, I expect(hope?) the GH6 will be a totally new sensor.

The G9 has a few downsides vs the GH5, but yes, all in all, for most people the G9 would make equally as much sense (or more) as a GH5 would for them.

The GH4 is much inferior to all these other cameras we've been discussing.

But then again, I just purchased a GH4 myself a couple of days ago! As at sub US$300 I couldn't resist it, and I'll merely be using it as my YouTube vlogging camera:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...aded-my-YT-vlogging-camera-from-a-G6-to-a-GH4!

Doubt the old GH4 will last me five years.... but then again, it is for such casual usage on YT, perhaps it will??

But whatever is my next "big camera upgrade" will likely last me 5 years! That's roughly how long I've got with my Sony PMW-F3 / BMPCC combo. Am seriously looking next at a secondhand Sony FS7 or PMW-F5 next.
 
IronFilm said:
The GH5S sensor runs too hot, thus they couldn't include IBIS as well
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Has Panasonic ever given a plausible reason for the GH5S’s lack of IBIS? I doubt a newer BSI sensor runs hotter. More likely Panasonic didn’t feel like developing a new IBIS unit (¥¥) for one niche camera with a larger sensor, knowing the GH5S would sell well enough without IBIS. The larger sensor in the GH5S isn’t a drop-in replacement for the GH5 sensor so couldn’t fit into the old IBIS assembly.

Or maybe a larger IBIS assembly would have been feasible, but then it wouldn’t have fitted in the GH5 body. Which they wanted to keep for cost or marketing reasons (compatible with existing GH5 cages, etc.).

IronFilm said:
Perhaps the GH6 will fix that? Doubt it, I expect(hope?) the GH6 will be a totally new sensor.
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By fix, I just meant a new sensor would probably have GH5S-like low-light performance, even if it has 8K’s worth of pixels. If the GH6 also gets IBIS, that would fix the current customer’s dilemma: IBIS or low light.

Interesting you got a GH4. It’s still kind of appealing to me. Smaller and lighter than a GH5, and the battery (the same battery) seems to last about twice as long. Also has the OLPF that I like.
 
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Samuel Dilworth said:
Has Panasonic ever given a plausible reason for the GH5S’s lack of IBIS? I doubt a newer BSI sensor runs hotter.
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It is a well known fact in the camera sensor geek community that the GH5S sensor runs much hotter than the GH5 sensor.

Samuel Dilworth said:
By fix, I just meant a new sensor would probably have GH5S-like low-light performance, even if it has 8K’s worth of pixels. If the GH6 also gets IBIS, that would fix the current customer’s dilemma: IBIS or low light.
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I highly doubt an 8K MFT camera released as soon as next year would be as good at low light as the monster which is the phenomenal GH5S!

Maaaaaaaaaaybe once down sampled to 4K? Perhaps.

As for IBIS, am sure the GH6 will have it. Panasonic are class leaders at this.

Samuel Dilworth said:
Interesting you got a GH4. It’s still kind of appealing to me. Smaller and lighter than a GH5, and the battery (the same battery) seems to last about twice as long. Also has the OLPF that I like.
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Even a G85 will be a better pick than a G85 though (for most people).

Only went for a secondhand GH4 because of the amazing deal(steal?) I got it for. And because of the very low requirements I have out of it. (my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/SoundSpeeding/)
 
I thought the reason the GH5s didnt have IBIS was because they thought that filmmakers wouldn't want to always use it, and theres some question of how tightly the sensor can be locked with IBIS off?
 
I think they left it out because there were complaints about the GH5's IBIS messing up gimbal shots and counteracting pans.
 
Imamacuser said:
I think they left it out because there were complaints about the GH5's IBIS messing up gimbal shots and counteracting pans.
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Really? My GH5 ibis plays nicely with gimbal shots and pans. I wonder what I'm doing right or I'm doing wrong

And if you dont want it, you can turn it off. The only question is if a turned off IBIS sensor is as static as a non-ibis sensor
 
It's a problem of business.

If both had IBIS, most people would only buy one. But many ended up owning both. (I did, but not at the same time.)
 
IronFilm said:
I highly doubt an 8K MFT camera released as soon as next year would be as good at low light as the monster which is the phenomenal GH5S!

Maaaaaaaaaaybe once down sampled to 4K?
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I think you will be surprised.

Down-sampling only reduces noise at the pixel level, which doesn’t really matter. What matters is noise at the image level, which doesn’t change. Similarly, the size of the pixels has a negligible effect on noise in the image. What matters for that is exposure multiplied by sensor area multiplied by sensor efficiency.

It’s easy to be misled by the low-light performance of the α7S III and GH5S into thinking they achieve that by having comparatively large pixels for their respective sensors sizes. Rather, they use BSI sensors with high-sensitivity design features and dual-conversion gain to push down readout noise. This tech can be equally applied to smaller pixels (look at smartphone sensors, which have miniscule pixels and yet are the very best image sensors per unit area in existence).
 
ahalpert said:
I thought the reason the GH5s didnt have IBIS was because they thought that filmmakers wouldn't want to always use it, and theres some question of how tightly the sensor can be locked with IBIS off?
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I think that’s one of the stories Panasonic spun to explain the omission, but do you believe it? Aren’t the GH5S users mounting cameras on vibrating machines outnumbered by a thousand to one by those trying to hand-hold a shot?

I find it telling that the GH5 had IBIS, the GH5S did not (even though Panasonic probably had the BGH1 in the pipeline, which could have been aimed at the crash-cam people who supposedly didn’t like the GH5), and then the S-series cameras went back to IBIS including the S1H for which Panasonic has a dedicated cine site.

It’s just ~$2000 Micro Four Thirds cameras with the oversized multi-aspect-ratio sensor for which Panasonic judges IBIS to be inappropriate. All Panasonic cameras with another size of sensor are just fine with IBIS, whether they’re cheaper or more expensive and aimed at cine users or not.
 
I am betting the oversized sensor made it economically unfeasible to put IBIS in the 5s - For what is likely a lower volume camera, do you really want to shoehorn in an IBIS mechanism that is different from the GH5/G9 (requiring special engineering for a lower volume part) and has likely a lot less space to perform its duties. Not to mention what is likely different thermals and power consumption for both the larger sensor and the different IBIS mechanism controlling a greater mass. We likely will never know, but I am guessing these are valid questions at the least. And I wonder if really strong forces can move the IBIS inside the GH5/G9 if the stabilization is turned off as they claim (never tested this myself, though I do have all three).
 
lol, please.

In another thread you said the a7IV might not get certain features because of the a7SIII.

Well, it works both ways. The GH5S is made by Panasonic Corporation, not Digital Bolex (who are awesome, btw).

The GH5S could have had IBIS if they really wanted it have IBIS (in a slightly bigger body).
 
Say_doyster: exactly.

As for the sensor moving in cameras with IBIS switched off: it certainly doesn’t with normal gimbal forces. Maybe it does with extreme vibration, but by that stage does any non-CCD / non-global shutter camera produce useable footage anyway?

I believe Caleb Pike has the IBIS reasoning backward in the video above. Panasonic didn’t make the sensor bigger because removing the IBIS gave them space to do so. Rather, they started with an off-the-shelf sensor from Sony – which is oversized to allow use of the full image circle in video as Pike explained well – and that made fitting IBIS an expensive proposition.
 
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