On January 18th and 19th, I will shoot a snowboard contest but I won't be able to bring DVRack or a field monitor to be sure me footage is good. My question is should I open the iris one F stop wider than the cam tell me if I don't want to have a kind of boring gray image? I don't know if it's going to be a cloudy or sunny day yet. Since it's the first time I'll shoot for a professionnal movie, I want to be sure that they will like the footage I'll give them. My other question is should I use 24P or 30P. These guys are gonna spin very fast so I don't know if 24P will be to blurry to strobed but what I'm thinking about is that best snowboard video are shot in 16mm so it's 24fps... so if I shoot 24Padv with the Shutter off, should I be okay?
Snow and snowboard
- Thread starter ronik15
- Start date
Re: Snow and snowboard
If I were you, shoot with Zebra on first and foremost to get your exposure right. Alot of snowboard stuff IS shot in 16mm, but for slowmo it is often times shot at 48-60 FPS. I find that 24p with a 1/48 shutter looks the best motion wise, it will still look weird slowed down. For slo mo shots you may want to shoot 60i with the identical scene settings as your 24p, I would set up two identical scene files so you can easily switch. Dont trust the color calibration of your LCD. Just make sure you white balance. If you're concearned about getting a washed out image, just turn your color levels up, but not too much. You can sort of see what things are going to look like with the LCD, but never trust it all the way. Hope that helps...Just remember, zebra is the only thing you can trust exposure wise. Isn't January 18th and 19th already passed?
If I were you, shoot with Zebra on first and foremost to get your exposure right. Alot of snowboard stuff IS shot in 16mm, but for slowmo it is often times shot at 48-60 FPS. I find that 24p with a 1/48 shutter looks the best motion wise, it will still look weird slowed down. For slo mo shots you may want to shoot 60i with the identical scene settings as your 24p, I would set up two identical scene files so you can easily switch. Dont trust the color calibration of your LCD. Just make sure you white balance. If you're concearned about getting a washed out image, just turn your color levels up, but not too much. You can sort of see what things are going to look like with the LCD, but never trust it all the way. Hope that helps...Just remember, zebra is the only thing you can trust exposure wise. Isn't January 18th and 19th already passed?
Re: Snow and snowboard
Here's one more opinion:
I have my Zebra's set at (1) 80% and (2) 100%. I have shot in the snow for commercials with the DVX100a. I left 100% Zebra up (I never really understood 105% but I sure someone can enlighten me). When the snow was overexposed, just take your iris down just enough to loose the zebra, if you find that you are losing exposure too much on your subject, increase iris 1/2 stop, if very small pockets of snow are blown out that shouldn't be a problem. Also..white balance is a must, and the sun will change so change the balance with the sun, and expect to be at ND 1/64th
Here's one more opinion:
I have my Zebra's set at (1) 80% and (2) 100%. I have shot in the snow for commercials with the DVX100a. I left 100% Zebra up (I never really understood 105% but I sure someone can enlighten me). When the snow was overexposed, just take your iris down just enough to loose the zebra, if you find that you are losing exposure too much on your subject, increase iris 1/2 stop, if very small pockets of snow are blown out that shouldn't be a problem. Also..white balance is a must, and the sun will change so change the balance with the sun, and expect to be at ND 1/64th
Re: Snow and snowboard
[quote author=Ronik link=board=Events;num=1107907273;start=0#7 date=02/09/05 at 09:12:34]Yes it's sure I'll be at ND 1/64th. I shot a few snowbaord video but amateur and some shots were too grey but this time, I won't my footage to be very good? Should I buy any filter? Polarizer or something else?[/quote]
A polarizer is good if it's a sunny day and you can make the sky a nice deep blue. I always have an extra ND 3 filter in my camera bag just in case, if nothing else it allows you to open up the iris more, but again you should be fine with the DVX ND.
Personally, I like the Tiffen Pro-mist filters, they just soften the image slightly, but it may not be the filter for this job (more for interviews etc.).
[quote author=Ronik link=board=Events;num=1107907273;start=0#7 date=02/09/05 at 09:12:34]Yes it's sure I'll be at ND 1/64th. I shot a few snowbaord video but amateur and some shots were too grey but this time, I won't my footage to be very good? Should I buy any filter? Polarizer or something else?[/quote]
A polarizer is good if it's a sunny day and you can make the sky a nice deep blue. I always have an extra ND 3 filter in my camera bag just in case, if nothing else it allows you to open up the iris more, but again you should be fine with the DVX ND.
Personally, I like the Tiffen Pro-mist filters, they just soften the image slightly, but it may not be the filter for this job (more for interviews etc.).
alpi69
Veteran
Re: Snow and snowboard
i shoot 40 days a year on snow.
i agree the zebra is the best way to check your exposure. in snow there will always be a few edges "zebraed". if you tone it all down you might underexpose. it is ok to have a a bit over 85%. just make sure they are really only the lightest parts of the picture.
i am not sure about the constant whitebalance. when we do events we beforehand decide if the script is chronological or not. if it is you might want to see the different snowcolours from blueish in the morning to orange at sunset. so a preset might work and you can then decide in post if you want to correct it all in one direction.
if several different cams are involved then you anyway have no idea who does a balance when and into what "white".
when i shoot alone and have no chronological script i whitebalance probably every 30 minutes :
if it is overcast you won´t have that problem really. everything will be a contrtastless mess of white and/or grey.
in that case you can only hope the location gives you backgrounds that allow to make a contrast. if everything is white in white on overcast days it is tough to get any cam to make decent images. even our Betacams suck then....
i shoot 40 days a year on snow.
i agree the zebra is the best way to check your exposure. in snow there will always be a few edges "zebraed". if you tone it all down you might underexpose. it is ok to have a a bit over 85%. just make sure they are really only the lightest parts of the picture.
i am not sure about the constant whitebalance. when we do events we beforehand decide if the script is chronological or not. if it is you might want to see the different snowcolours from blueish in the morning to orange at sunset. so a preset might work and you can then decide in post if you want to correct it all in one direction.
if several different cams are involved then you anyway have no idea who does a balance when and into what "white".
when i shoot alone and have no chronological script i whitebalance probably every 30 minutes :
if it is overcast you won´t have that problem really. everything will be a contrtastless mess of white and/or grey.
in that case you can only hope the location gives you backgrounds that allow to make a contrast. if everything is white in white on overcast days it is tough to get any cam to make decent images. even our Betacams suck then....
Re: Snow and snowboard
You could do it, but It's not absolutely necessary. The advice they gave you about zebra is really good, make sure and follow that and your shots should be exposed properly. To stay away from having a grey and boring image, you may want to turn the chroma level up but not too much, and shift the color temp to a little warmer setting. Other than that, just play around and see what looks good.
You could do it, but It's not absolutely necessary. The advice they gave you about zebra is really good, make sure and follow that and your shots should be exposed properly. To stay away from having a grey and boring image, you may want to turn the chroma level up but not too much, and shift the color temp to a little warmer setting. Other than that, just play around and see what looks good.
alpi69
Veteran
Re: Snow and snowboard
polarizers are really good on the mountain. but there are 2 problems: 1. they don´t really work when overcast
2. beware when you follow a rider. the sky might go from a dark blue to a light blue to a dark blue in the pan, because the anlge to the sun changed. it might be ok, but when you edit you might see the problem especially when the sun has moved during the day. so basically yes, but be cautios.
here is a link to a clip i recently made:
http://www.planetliquid.us/web_video/nordpark.wmv
it is not shot with the DVX (betaSP and a canon DVs) but it shows you some things. especially the very slight overexposure which then gives you good colours especially when standing in a park that is pointing towards the sun all day.....when the sun is behind you you have no problem at all IMO. at 1:26 you see a shot where the overexpsoure was overdone....it is ok in that edit, but the whole piece should not be like that....then better go under and push a shot or 2 in post.
polarizers are really good on the mountain. but there are 2 problems: 1. they don´t really work when overcast
2. beware when you follow a rider. the sky might go from a dark blue to a light blue to a dark blue in the pan, because the anlge to the sun changed. it might be ok, but when you edit you might see the problem especially when the sun has moved during the day. so basically yes, but be cautios.
here is a link to a clip i recently made:
http://www.planetliquid.us/web_video/nordpark.wmv
it is not shot with the DVX (betaSP and a canon DVs) but it shows you some things. especially the very slight overexposure which then gives you good colours especially when standing in a park that is pointing towards the sun all day.....when the sun is behind you you have no problem at all IMO. at 1:26 you see a shot where the overexpsoure was overdone....it is ok in that edit, but the whole piece should not be like that....then better go under and push a shot or 2 in post.
Re: Snow and snowboard
[quote author=alpi69 link=board=Events;num=1107907273;start=0#12 date=02/09/05 at 23:19:49]polarizers are really good on the mountain. but there are 2 problems: 1. they don´t really work when overcast
2. beware when you follow a rider. the sky might go from a dark blue to a light blue to a dark blue in the pan, because the anlge to the sun changed. it might be ok, but when you edit you might see the problem especially when the sun has moved during the day. so basically yes, but be cautios.
here is a link to a clip i recently made:
http://www.planetliquid.us/web_video/nordpark.wmv
it is not shot with the DVX (betaSP and a canon DVs) but it shows you some things. especially the very slight overexposure which then gives you good colours especially when standing in a park that is pointing towards the sun all day.....when the sun is behind you you have no problem at all IMO. at 1:26 you see a shot where the overexpsoure was overdone....it is ok in that edit, but the whole piece should not be like that....then better go under and push a shot or 2 in post.
[/quote]
Alpi...great clips, any idea what settings you were at? ND filter/iris/shutter etc.?
[quote author=alpi69 link=board=Events;num=1107907273;start=0#12 date=02/09/05 at 23:19:49]polarizers are really good on the mountain. but there are 2 problems: 1. they don´t really work when overcast
2. beware when you follow a rider. the sky might go from a dark blue to a light blue to a dark blue in the pan, because the anlge to the sun changed. it might be ok, but when you edit you might see the problem especially when the sun has moved during the day. so basically yes, but be cautios.
here is a link to a clip i recently made:
http://www.planetliquid.us/web_video/nordpark.wmv
it is not shot with the DVX (betaSP and a canon DVs) but it shows you some things. especially the very slight overexposure which then gives you good colours especially when standing in a park that is pointing towards the sun all day.....when the sun is behind you you have no problem at all IMO. at 1:26 you see a shot where the overexpsoure was overdone....it is ok in that edit, but the whole piece should not be like that....then better go under and push a shot or 2 in post.
[/quote]
Alpi...great clips, any idea what settings you were at? ND filter/iris/shutter etc.?
alpi69
Veteran
Re: Snow and snowboard
well on such a day you use all the ND you can get. i think i was 1/32th ND with the BetaSP and then had between 8 and 11-and-a-bit iris. in shutter i try to stay with 1/50th per second (in PAL) which gives a good average image which is soft enough motionblurwise (if that can be said on interlaced footage) and sharp enough in slomos. i hardly use faster than 1/100th. the worst is when someone is on all auto-mode and the camera uses 1/1000th shutterspeed and you want to mix the footage.....
well on such a day you use all the ND you can get. i think i was 1/32th ND with the BetaSP and then had between 8 and 11-and-a-bit iris. in shutter i try to stay with 1/50th per second (in PAL) which gives a good average image which is soft enough motionblurwise (if that can be said on interlaced footage) and sharp enough in slomos. i hardly use faster than 1/100th. the worst is when someone is on all auto-mode and the camera uses 1/1000th shutterspeed and you want to mix the footage.....
Re: Snow and snowboard
Ronik, spins come out fine in 24pa. Just spent the weekend filming and it looks awesome. sat was overcast and snowing but if you keep the iris on manual and just touching the zebras at 80% it looks good. The hardest thing is having a steady shot. If you have any sudden movements it is less forgiving than at 60i. I recommend that you spend as much time as you can practice filming riders at different settings before the comp. Also plan where you're going to shoot from ahead of time. Think about at least 3 different positions. On top of the jump is good if you have a fisheye, otherwise not really - the size of the kicker gets lost. If it's a big comp you'll have the problem of other shooters getting in your way/in your shots. Bring along a big friend to kick them out of the way for your shots!
Oh, and get fingerless gloves, if you don't want to lose your fingers to the cold! (but you prob knew most of this already) 8)
Ronik, spins come out fine in 24pa. Just spent the weekend filming and it looks awesome. sat was overcast and snowing but if you keep the iris on manual and just touching the zebras at 80% it looks good. The hardest thing is having a steady shot. If you have any sudden movements it is less forgiving than at 60i. I recommend that you spend as much time as you can practice filming riders at different settings before the comp. Also plan where you're going to shoot from ahead of time. Think about at least 3 different positions. On top of the jump is good if you have a fisheye, otherwise not really - the size of the kicker gets lost. If it's a big comp you'll have the problem of other shooters getting in your way/in your shots. Bring along a big friend to kick them out of the way for your shots!
Oh, and get fingerless gloves, if you don't want to lose your fingers to the cold! (but you prob knew most of this already) 8)