HPX250: Slow creep on Lens

J

JohnnyD

Well-known member
Just worked a full day on a HPX250, and the director wanted a slow creep zoom into the subject. I couldn't do it. I have a HPX500 with Canon and Fuji lens that can start really slow. I tried many adjustments, switches on the arm,etc. without success. I can't get that really slow start. So, anybody have an idea what the problem is.

Would adding a varizoom controller help?

Thanks, JohnnyD
 
It won't do a slow creep even with a zoom controller. Try putting the camera on a slider and push in.
 
Haaaa, Ok, so no slow creep. Does anybody want a week old HPX250 for $200 less than than B&H, or Texas? I haven't even sent in the warranty. The remote still in it's plastic cover,etc.

JohnnyD
 
Being able to do a slow creep comes in handy many times. When I got my first Panasonic camera, a DVC30, it had an excellent slow zoom speed. It never occurred to me when I bought my HPX170 that it would be unable to do the same. Now with the HPX250 it doesn't look like any improvement on this feature. Don't laugh but I have now motorized my slider and use it get the creep speed. I wish I didn't have to lug around so much gear.
 
On HPX170 the slowest zoom is achieved by the control on the handle: if you set the speed to "1" you can get a lower zoom then on the main control.

I don't know on 250

Regards

Gary
 
That is disapointing to hear. I got spoiled on my ag dvc60s because they had a marvelous smooth zoom
. Just as silky smooth unnoticeable zoom as you want but also ranging all the way to a very fast zoom. Why do later cameras lack this ability? I heard it was due to special Servos being required to be able to manage the variable slow feather start, stop and creep.
I know in Hollywood the rule is dolly/pull in and not zoom, but in the real world of us companies that don't have massive budgets , many projects require zooming. Sports, theater and automotive events require zooming. Multicamera Weddings require zooming. Low budget commercial jobs may not justify a steadicam, dolly or jib every time.
 
It is very disappointing that the only camera on which Panasonic got the zoom speeds right (from a dead slow "creep" all the way up to a dizzying fast "snap") is on the very old and discontinued DVC30.

I really wish they'd duplicate that success on all their other models. I mean, once they got it right, why would they continue thereafter to do it wrong?
 
Jim Simon said:
It is very disappointing that the only camera on which Panasonic got the zoom speeds right (from a dead slow "creep" all the way up to a dizzying fast "snap") is on the very old and discontinued DVC30.

I really wish they'd duplicate that success on all their other models. I mean, once they got it right, why would they continue thereafter to do it wrong?
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Yes and on it's full size form factor big brother, the DVC60. I still have 2 of them and the zoom is absolutely perfect, from silky smooth crawl to - ZAP! Power zoom, and everything in-between. Why don't any of these newer cameras carry over some of the great stuff? The user programmable 1 button push auto zoom focus was another useful function and "film look" setting. The famed DVX never even got that stuff either
 
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Yeh, this just sucks. The 1 on the handlle is not even close. And there is a small lump after a slow zooming out, and then a slow zoom in. Just a very small hesitation. This camera has a great codec, nice reach for the lens, but otherwise, the lens is crap. Why did Panasonic do this. I will be selling mine. Can't send it back to Texas cause of the restocking fee. I should have done my homework and tried one before I bought. Probably won't get a call back from the director.

Thanks Panasonic for not giving us the right product that we need.
 
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I'm sure Panasonic makes the product you need, the 250 just isn't it. For me, it's perfect with the exception of not having 1080p/60p.
 
I guess what makes not being able to do a "creep zoom" so disappointing to me is that Panasonic produced low end cameras like the DVC30 which had an excellent zoom speed control. At least in my mind as one moves up the Panasonic line of cameras I would expect this type feature to end up in a more expensive camera. Not doing so, to me is taking a step backwards in product development. I think I paid $2,000 for my DVC30, $4,000 for my HPX170 and the HPX250 is around $4,500. Granted the image quality as one moves up the line improves dramatically and that is a great feature. But that is only part of the equation in obtaining a great image. Lens quality and lens control IMO should take a higher priority than what Panasonic is giving it. If I had known how poor and limiting the zoom control was for my needs before I bought my HPX170 I think I would have passed. As it is right now my work-a-round is to shoot 720p60 then conform to a 30p timeline to get a slower zoom speed or use a slider which is near useless in closeups where the DOF is very small.
 
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If you have a steady enough hand, you can get any zoom speed you want manually.

But I've never seen anyone with a steady enough hand to replicate what the DVC30 could do with the servo.
 
This is the problem with an overly ambitious zoom range on a relatively inexpensive camera.. with a shorter range it's easier to design a built-in motor that will handle a smooth, long zoom. As I said months ago, I wish this camera had the HVX lens, which is more reasonable in range - and doesn't vary in exposure so radically either (my gripe). Personally I don't like to use zooms in shots anyway, so I turn the motor off and use the lens as a variable prime...

However, for those that do, there are tricks old-timer cinematographers used pre-motors, like rubber bands. On a 25-250 Angenieux I once used a wide one (like the kind broccoli comes with in produce markets) to apply just enough friction to do a creep... It does take some practice though, and sometimes silicon. I also have a Chrozsiel fluid zoom (that, by-the-way, originally cost more than half the price of the HPX250) on a super16 lens that, although heavy, works much better than a motor - if I liked zooms I'd probably figure a way to modify it for this lens.

Edit: Another thing that can work is to use a FF to control the zoom... Get one of those funky lens gears from Red Rock and cut off the interior L shaped adapter pieces with a hacksaw so the gear is smooth inside... drill a hole at each end of the gear and attach it to the zoom collar with a zip tie, being careful to line up the location of the teeth so the full zoom range contacts the gear on the FF. Then use a whip crank to control the zoom motion through the FF. You could also use a wide rubber band instead of the lens gear, run it around the lens and over the FF gear, although admittedly I haven't tried it (in the example above, with the 25-250, the rubber band ran around the lens and one of the matte box rods to create tension and the lens collar itself was turned).

As we used to say in my old (very short lived) motorcycle racing days "invention of necessity is a mother".
 
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Mac said:
This is the problem with an overly ambitious zoom range on a relatively inexpensive camera.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The DVC30 was fairly inexpensive at the time (compared to it larger siblings - the DVC80 and DVX100), had a larger 16x zoom range, and it had the desired superfast snap and dead slow creep.

I'm not seeing any engineering issues here. Panny did it once, they should have continued doing it for every camera after that.

As for the proposed work arounds, they may suffice in a production envirenment, but for event work are entirely impractical. This kind of capability needs to be built-in.
 
Jim Simon said:
I'm not seeing any engineering issues here. Panny did it once, they should have continued doing it for every camera after that.
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The difference is that the HPX170/HVX200/HPX250/HMC150/AC160/AC130 series all have a true manual zoom, where you can disengage the servo and perform a true manual manipulation of the zoom. The DVC30 didn't have that, it was servo only.

They could most likely make the variable-zoom you're asking for, if they abandoned the true manual. Is that a tradeoff that most users would make? I don't know. The true manual has been a unique selling point since nobody else has it.
 
In my case, I wouldn't have even looked at it without the option for manual zoom...

I realize that the market has shifted to products that can satisfy the largest consumer base, but there are still those of us out in the wilderness that prefer personal contact with the tool - and the challenge of developing skills.. Hell, dinosaur that I am, I remove the motors from my 2/3" lenses...

Anyway, I wasn't trying to start a debate, I was merely offering some viable options... And I really don't understand why using a FF is impractical for event shooting anyway... I shot the rock concerts for over 6 years in the 60s and 70s and would have used one in a second if they were available then...
 
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