Slog must not be as good as they claim

Oh Doug.
I am going to build a custom camera for you. Then you will be happy. Or just buy an Alexa.

God Bless.
 
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Douglas Villalba said:
Most of what is on my website was shot HDSLR or HVX200 with Nikon Lenses. If I wanted to get the same quality or look I don't have to invest $20k - $25k. Those customers will never see the difference.
I am working on pre production for an Indie feature that I'll be directing in about a month or two. I started my research about a month ago and I probably know more about this camera than some of the people that own it.
That is why I crack up when I hear that Slog is the same as RAW (like RED RAW). I provably won't needs Slog since 95% of it will be interior control illumination, but what if?
You made a comment "s log opens up the colorspace a lot more and gives the camera much more natural looking colors" I haven't seen anything with natural looking color. That was the reason for this thread to begin with.
I asked someone that has the camera w/Slog to shoot a test. I still have hope that if used correctly, Slog can reproduce the range that it promises it can do.
Any one in the Miami area that owns the camera with Slog call me if you want to test it in my studio.
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It just seems to me that maybe sLog isn't for you.
 
eddavid said:
Oh Doug.
I am going to build a custom camera for you. Then you will be happy. Or just buy an Alexa.
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Would you really? :cheesy:
Nah, F3 is more than adequate for my needs. It is at the right price to buy and keep for the next 3+ years. Any requests for RED or Alexa I'll rent.
 
TimurCivan said:
It just seems to me that maybe sLog isn't for you.
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Maybe not, but I saved my self at least $1,000 in rental trying to find out thanks to all of you that already own it.
If in the future I see my self needing it for some extreme shooting then I will rent the Slog and 444 recorder.
The latitude on the F3 is so much better that any DSLR that it'll do for now as is. Heck, the FS100 is so mush better than DSLRs that if it wasn't for the movie I'm doing I would buy one for corporate and political ads.
 
I don't think SLOG is for many people.

For basic color grading you don't need 444 all of the sudden just because it became available on the F3. People have been grading for years, you can color grade 422 or even VHS for that matter. The only thing 444 is going to do for you is preserve detail in areas that would otherwise result in noise when being pushed or pulled to extremes.

The biggest advantage of SLOG as I see it is the ability to re-expose or adjust only certain parts of the frame that you want. Only if you're willing to go through this level of a pain-staking process requiring masks and motion tracking - only then might you end up with a finished look that looks like it has a lot of "dynamic range" to it. How many of us here are really going to go through all that trouble? (I would.. lol)

Here's a still photo I took using the RAW format on my Canon 7D. The model is backlit by the sun and I am using a flash for fill on her front. I exposed for the subject and in the original photo the sky is completely blown out. Only because this was a RAW image was I able to bring the clouds back into the final picture by re-exposing the sky around her:

 
Douglas Villalba said:
The latitude on the F3 is so much better that any DSLR that it'll do for now as is. Heck, the FS100 is so mush better than DSLRs that if it wasn't for the movie I'm doing I would buy one for corporate and political ads.
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I'm afraid not. That's why S-Log is a game changer. S-Log pushes the F3 up near the Alexa and significantly better than the Red MX. This is data from the recent Single Chip Camera Evaluation.

LatitudeTest.jpg

Dynamic range/Latitude and DOF the stock F3 is very comparable to the DSLRs. It blows them out of the water in resolution, low noise, lack of moire, aliasing and ease of use.
 
fruitypurple said:
Here we go again, the invalid scce charts...
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To the best of my knowledge there has never been a question as to the validity of this DR graph. The SCCE tests were generally excellent and the DR charts are spot on.

People didn't understand the pre-release resolution results allowing aliasing (made resolution seem higher than physically possible), but the later release resolution charts cleared all that up. This is not a resolution graph.

If you have some evidence to the contrary I'm sure we'd all like to see it.
 
Charts have their place but at the end it is only relative not decisive. For example in the Zacuto Shoot out film had the highest latitude, but on the lows it looked unusable to me. So yes you get an image but not a good image. It is mush like temperature. It may be 50 degs. but add the windshield and it feels like 40 deg.
Does that make cense?
 
Hi Doug,

So what made you ultimately decide on the F3 (without immediate plan to upgrade to SLOG) over FS100 in the end? Was is the ports, in-camera features, long-term strategy, wow-factor, etc..? Since it sounds like you're about to embark on a cinema/movie adventure (likely with controlled lighting) I don't think the ND filters were a make or break point really.

Would like to hear your perspective, and for your film do you plan to record to SxS or SDI?
 
starcentral said:
Hi Doug,

So what made you ultimately decide on the F3 (without immediate plan to upgrade to SLOG) over FS100 in the end? Was is the ports, in-camera features, long-term strategy, wow-factor, etc..? Since it sounds like you're about to embark on a cinema/movie adventure (likely with controlled lighting) I don't think the ND filters were a make or break point really.

Would like to hear your perspective, and for your film do you plan to record to SxS or SDI?
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There are many reasons. More that I have time to mention, but i'll give it try:

FS100
Has a fantastic image at any price.
Low price makes it available to amateurs, so if producers or agencies do a Google search they are going to see a lot more crap than good samples.
Add rails and matte box and it looks good with SLR lenses
Only HDMI out to record 422 and monitor (Don't know of any 444 recorder for it)
Battery system last a long time and it comes w/batterry & charger. Extra batteries are inexpensive.
No way to monitor on tripod overhead without ext. monitor
No ND filter build in. (No problem with my Nikons w/variable ND, but yes w/PL)
AVCHD 8 bit is very efficient. Hard to see a difference from 422 under normal conditions.
Component out at the same time as HDMI (I have an 8" Panasonic monitor with only component or composite $2,000)
A good upgrade to a HDSLR

F3
3 times the price of the FS100, 13 times the price of a good HDSLR, half the price of a RED.
It is at the starting point of a full Digital Cinema Camera Price and better quality than some.
Build in ND filters and electronic 5,600k filter.
Multiple SDI out ports, HDMI simultaneous for monitoring w/camera info. It also plays good on multi-camera or future 3D with TC in & out, video out, genlock, etc.
Expensive battery system. 12volts XLR in (I am getting an Anton Bouer system)
External 10 Bit 422 or 444. I'll try a Ninja until a new customer pays for the Gemini or similar recorder. In the studio for Chroma Keying I'll go direct to FC/BMD HD Extreme.
Old technology 8 Bit 420 Mpeg2. Expensive for todays standard SxS cards. If the Hoodman SDHC adapter works for S&Q I'll get a couple w/64GB for everyday shoot.
S&Q from 1-30 in 1080 and 31-60 in 720 :-(
VF can be set to B&W at the same time you can have the LCD in color.
Comes with 3 inexpensive PL lenses that talk to the camera and corrects color aberrations. Can use my specialty Nikon lenses w/adapter.
LCD displays dop plus a whole bunch of other details like color temp. etc.
Custom TC and File naming.
Front & rear Tally lights
Back Focus adjustments
Stereo Mic (Don't think I'll use it even if if is a good mic) I haven't heard any comments on it.
NTSC-PAL if I ever get a job in EU or Argentina.
Aspect markings
Slog still out for review.

I'm sure there are other thing that are not as important to me.
 
Doug, I appreciate your thorough homework and ability to not drink the Koolaid. I had to chuckle when you denounced S-Log. (whether true or not).
I think it does what it's supposed to but FEW users know how to deal with it properly in post. It also creates a bottle-neck that many are not prepared for. (as does Cinegamma).
Looking forward to experimenting with it myself.
 
Doug, I too really appreciate your reply and honesty in your response. I also agree to fact there is merit in owning a camera in this league, something less accessible to others can make it more attractive to producers, directors, agencies, etc.. sad but true, but it is one more reason to own the F3 over the FS100.
 
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It seems like Doug doesn't really do color grading himself? Give a good colorist an s-log image and he will thank you for it. The complaining seems like "my pocketcam makes more punchy images than the f3 with s-log". Duh. Offcourse it does. It's like working in linear color space.
 
Doug doesnt need to be a post production artist to ask to see some great examples of SLOG put to use... It would be nice to see someone take SLOG to the max, but it will be a while i think before we do.. Give it time.
 
sorry! can't exactly be posting work all over the internet before the stuff evens airs... i might never find work again if i do.
 
tom.wong said:
sorry! can't exactly be posting work all over the internet before the stuff evens airs... i might never find work again if i do.
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We would't want that, but you should have test footage from before you committed to do a paid job. Unless you learned something new after the tests?
 
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