Skipping clapper... bad idea?

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Oller Visuals

Well-known member
Doing my first low-budget feature soon, and not planning to pay someone to hold a clapperboard for me. In fact rarely even say "action", I much prefer going "5, 4, 3..." and then let the (amateur) actors have a go at it when they are ready. I only have positive experience with doing it this way.

Both "action" and the clapper sound can in my experience make novice actors nervous to perform at the mark, something I don't like because it takes away their ability to perform, and I think low budget filmmaking is a lot about finding people that can perform at their most natural state, close to their real selves. Also I've rarely felt that "damn should have brought a clapper"... even in those cases where I've hadn't had the opportunity to sync with in-camera sound. If wrapping stuff up with dailies and storing things neatly syncing sound has been the least of my issues.

BUT... the scope of making a feature film is something that I have no previous experience with... and I guess it would be nice to have a clapper, but then it should be ALL IN as expensive stuff... with timecode and everything... otherwise why bother, and again someone needs to get paid to hold that board for me... I just don't like it.

I dunno man. What should I do? As you can tell, I'm confused. :)
 
Use what works for you. If your workflow is working, there is no reason to change. If your looking to improve your workflow, then we'd need to know more to let you know how it can be improved.

We're just now putting a local amateur group together to do shorts for fun. Three of us have experience and the others are novices. At the last shoot, we had two amatuer actors who were excellent. They had no issues with 'action' or the mark. Regarding 'action', it doesn't have to be' ACTION!', it can be 'action'. The word action should not mean there is any rush to action. Direction can be given that once the director says action, that the actors should take their time to settle and begin when they are ready.

In broadcast, we always use a count down from 10 or from 5. But then, we expect the talent to start beating their gums a half-beat after zero. In your case, I would think a count down would bring more anxiety than the word action.

Regarding a marker, we needed it because we were using a double system and we did not have timecode and did not plan to use a plug in to sync sound. The amateur actors did not freak with the clapper.
 
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Oller Visuals said:
someone needs to get paid to hold that board for me... I just don't like it.
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This seems to imply that the sole job of a 2nd AC is to slate (for it is them who traditionally "hold that board"). Even on a full-size crew, a 2nd has plenty of other duties. On a low budget shoot, there will surely be a smaller crew and potentially they are also data managing or even pulling focus.

It sounds like you are directing this but not sure if you are also shooting it. If you have a separate DP, this is a discussion to have with them (and your editor, if that is not you).

Across the course of a feature there will be hundreds of indivdual takes. A slate will help you identify which is which as well as aid with syncing. If you must forego this, it is critical to ensure that timecode is matched between camera and sound recorder, and it would be smart to use a wireless receiver on camera to record a scratch track that closely matches the production audio. That way you can use the automated sync function found in various NLE's, Pluraleyes etc with timecode as your backup method for syncing.
 
Oller Visuals said:
Both "action" and the clapper sound can in my experience make novice actors nervous to perform at the mark
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But then, won't the lights, camera, MUA, and people watching them also make them nervous? And won't they perhaps get used to a quick clap after half a day and then treat it as no big deal?

How many days, scenes, and takes do you plan to need to shoot the film?

Are you planning on recording audio to a different recorder than picture? Or will both sound and pix be recorded on the camera? If the later, then a clapped slate can help with sync. Sure, there are dandy sync tools built into some NLEs and PluralEyes works fairly well. But a slate with the scene and take called out is a solid primary or backup tool for sync.

Also: how many takes and shoot days do you plan? If a lot, then a maintained slate can be really helpful during post...especially low-budget post where you might not have a big editorial staff to track down and identify errant takes... and try to link up audio and video assets.

If you're recording audio and picture separately, you could get by with just sending timecode or scratch audio from the audio recorder to the camera, but that's --slightly-- tricky. And even if you do, a slate can be a good backup (did I already say that?).

Also, clapping a slate and calling out the scene/take is a great audible reminder to the crew that it's time to be quiet. A helpful reminder to experienced pro crews, and especially to newer filmmakers. Or will you have a necessarily-evil AD on set? :-)

A timecode slate is helpful, but you can live without timecode, ime. And if you have a scripty or sound department making notes/reports, you could have enough to get by.

So you can survive without a slate/clapper...but then you might just be making the whole post process more of a treasure hunt that it is in the best of circumstances.

Talk to your editor and see what she or he wants... And if that editor's you, think if having more useful information (i.e- generated by consistent use of a slate) is better than having less.

That's my take. I do plenty of doc and corp work without a slate. Buy also do some of both with slates...and just about always use them on the (rather few) fiction narrative gigs I do... And in the cases where I don't, the producer and post know what they're giving up.

Seriously: I think done with discretion (but not silently!) a clapper slate probably won't be overly distracting to you actors after a few takes...

That's my take. Others?
 
I think I would at least want a card with information shown at the heads of each take, even if I went without a clap to sync things.
 
I've actually found that a lot of "amateurs" really love the slate. I have a plain old dry-erase board slate and I'll use it sometimes on multi-camera interviews, especially if they want something like a dslr that doesn't have TC for a second angle that will only be used once or twice. A LOT of my interviews are with professional and college athletes and I've had some of the college kids ask if they can "clap it" or "slap it". They just get big grins on their faces and I think it actually helps put them at ease. Maybe because it's something fun and different for them or because they are all of a sudden "part of the process". Just something to think about.
 
One observation- to me a board can be a real hinderance - or rather the act of clearing the frame ESP on a wide or a really cramped shot (there are lots of cramped shots in Indy)

Also it can eat data - another factor in Indy.

And can cause focus problems.

And cause operator fatigue

Overall I'd go without if it doesn't mess up post too much.

I'd go with noise only or someone off screen must clap at minimum
 
Nuts but I have used a stills flash strobe for syncing it can be seen acros many cameras even if they are pointing different directions
 
Definitely use it. If you're shooting a feature, it's gonna save you loooooads of time in post. For syncing and for editing and sorting through shots and selects.

I doubt it'll negatively impact your actors as much as you fear. But if you find it's ruining your performances, then I suppose you're just gonna be in a tricky position.

Shooting a feature is all about redundancy. Ideally you want a slate, with timecode, jam timecode between camera slate and audio recorder, and even send a wireless camera hop for scratch audio. You can remove these layers of redundancy as needed, but to not even have a slate clap is asking for trouble in post. For a feature, I'd say the cost benefit is not in your favor. Again, slates help you find, organize and confirm the takes much more easily in post. Specially if you take good production notes.

The reason why I don't recommend just having a slate and not clapping is because you never know if your timecode slips...or if your camera hop runs out of battery or fails for whatever reason withou anyone noticing for a few takes. Mistakes happen and it's all about having depth of redundancy to counter act the negative impact of any individual failure.

As far as wasting camera media on indies, it's true. You do record a bit more. But I still fin it's worth it. Specially since you can arranger call as such: roll sound (rolling), read slate (scene 1 Shot 1A...), roll camera (rolling), mark it (claps slate). This wastes less footage then you counting down from 5 after the camera is rolling.

I know about what you mean for shorter quick content, you may find that you can stand to just not slate or whatever...even though it's still very prudent to do so. However, for a feature, definitely do it, is my opinion :)
 
Specially if you take good production notes"

This is a consideration - the whole ecosystem- are most indies doing stuff like that?

I've observed the editor just goes to the rushes and starts - bigger productions are better administered.
 
If you're using a script supervisor and are shy in the camera department crew wise, have the SS slate...I would not think of making a feature without a script supervise or a slate...low tech and infallible
 
morgan_moore said:
Specially if you take good production notes"

This is a consideration - the whole ecosystem- are most indies doing stuff like that?

I've observed the editor just goes to the rushes and starts - bigger productions are better administered.
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Can't speak to most indies, but it happens on the projects I've been on. And I always print out a template for script-supervisors, 2nd AC or AD with the file structure clip by clip, which makes it really easy to match slates to clip numbers and production notes. Then when they get to post, editorial knows that take two buzzed focus at 30 seconds, but is the best performance prior to that. Also easy to find selects. Actually more helpful in indies since it saves time and money in post, without adding time and cost during production.
 
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