Sigma fp

dpreview measured the DR of the a7 III in 12-bit ADC mode at 12.4 EV, which matches Sigma's claim surprisingly well. It loses 1.5 stops with respect to its own 14-bit mode.
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...C-RX100-IV-versus-Sony-A7-III___942_1033_1236

My guess is that it should be on par with the p4k. And I would also guess that it should be on par with the p6k but I already found out that this guess was wrong: for some reason the p6k has 1.5 stops better DR than the p4k. Which may mean that the p6k has better DR than the Sigma pf, or that my assumptions when I do these calculations are wrong and sensor size matters and maybe the Sigma has even better DR. What a helpful conclusion, I know. XD

edit: ugh, 8-bit, hope it's a typo :(
 
They're still working on their firmware, which leaves almost everything up in the air. The key for them, IMO, would be matching the auto focus to their lenses. If they have problems implementing it, there seems to be little reason for the camera. EZCam is working the entry level 4K Raw, BMD slots just above them, then there's XT-3 and GH-5, then Z6 (whenever ProRes Raw is enabled), then Pocket6K, EOS R, S1, then S1H, then C200 and, at some point, FX6.

Pocket6K is the top seller these days, so that has to be Sigma's aim in terms of value, but there are a lot of options otherwise. Everything wants to take their shot before 6K smartphones come out and those will probably be shown in Barcelona in February. And then sold in hundreds of millions to people who wear sunglasses as they shoot.
 
Sigma's founder wanted it to be a camera making company, and his son is running the company now: they're going to make cameras. They were making them when demand was absolutely zero (I've never seen a Sigma DP on the wild, and it has such a weird shape that it would be very easy to identify). They're now looking for a market for their product, to see they can get back some of that investment. That gives them a lot of potential.
 
The problem for Sigma is that they're moving into a rapidly declining market, where they're still tied into the Japanese Big Four. At this point, one might as well be an independent like BMD and EZ Cam and just keep on moving forward with incredible specs. As much as I think S1H is a great product, Pocket6K is undercutting it by $1,500 - granted, it's an APSC vs. FF - and, on top of that, includes the B-Raw. And the Resolve.

PS. BMD's strategy is paying off with regard to the Resolve too. A few years back, it was an also-run in the editing/grading business but now it's a major competitor even as a stand-alone package. Throw in the best-bang-for-the-buck cameras and you got an incredible combo.

And Pocket6K has an EF mount and its 150 million strong lens selection*.

*Technically speaking, 150M is roughly the number of the EF lenses made by Canon over the last 35 years but this doesn't include product made by the licensed third party manufacturers like Sigma and Tamron.
 
I moved to Resolve thanks to the p4k, and now I'm staying there no matter what camera I switch to next. The only thing I think BM should do about Resolve is that they should buy Ripple Training and make their tutorials freely available.
 
I tried lots of free tutorials and gave up on Resolve. When I got the p4k I tried with the Ripple Training tutorials and found them a lot better: with these I've successfully moved from Premiere and AE to Resolve and Fusion. YMMV.
 

The Sigma rep says with some equivocation, "Pricing under three thousand pounds".

For reference, S1H is £3,000 w/out the VAT and £3,600 with the VAT (at CVP, UK). Sigma fp at ~ $4,000 - without the required accessories - will make it a tough sell, IMO. The market in this niche is very saturated already and there are more hybrids and non-hybrids to come.

On the plus side, the rep says it will have the AF eye tracking but I think he was talking about the stills mode.

PS. The above clip plays only in 360 for me. Maybe, it can be viewed at 1080 in Europe (a Dutch vlogger). Not that it really matters here.
 
What jumped out at me negatively was the L-mount, like seriously they're releasing a 'cine' camera and it doesn't match their own cine lenses??? I'm not sure if it's changed but the cine zoom's were a choice of E or EF mount (maybe PL?) ... strange choice imo. Also an aside is camera's can be too small to a fault - you start to make things strange when you go THAT small - the cine lenses are 5x bigger than the camera and way many multiples more. you have to trick it out more - but then that defeats the purpose - you either go with a crane and stills glass, or throw a real cine lens on, but then have to trick the crap out of it with cages and all that.

to me the best competition would be going after the alexa mini in terms of specs, but keep that type of size - I bet if they put that camera in a different body that screams cine, they could charge more and it would sell more units.

The other big downer is the lack of slow motion - perhaps a larger body would have allowed that functionality? ;)

This is obviously meant to compete with the A7s and a7riii's etc.... but those do 60fps UHD - so in my mind it actually has to be cheaper.

So for those reasons....I'm out lol



DLD said:
The problem for Sigma is that they're moving into a rapidly declining market, where they're still tied into the Japanese Big Four. At this point, one might as well be an independent like BMD and EZ Cam and just keep on moving forward with incredible specs. As much as I think S1H is a great product, Pocket6K is undercutting it by $1,500 - granted, it's an APSC vs. FF - and, on top of that, includes the B-Raw. And the Resolve.

PS. BMD's strategy is paying off with regard to the Resolve too. A few years back, it was an also-run in the editing/grading business but now it's a major competitor even as a stand-alone package. Throw in the best-bang-for-the-buck cameras and you got an incredible combo.

And Pocket6K has an EF mount and its 150 million strong lens selection*.

*Technically speaking, 150M is roughly the number of the EF lenses made by Canon over the last 35 years but this doesn't include product made by the licensed third party manufacturers like Sigma and Tamron.
Click to expand...
 
fatman said:
What jumped out at me negatively was the L-mount, like seriously they're releasing a 'cine' camera and it doesn't match their own cine lenses??? ...
Click to expand...

Sigma is a part of the L-Mount Alliance and scheduled to release most of its Art primes in L-mount this year already. Meanwhile Panasonic has several zooms out. Supposedly, both of them will work like the native glass.

Supposedly.
 
fatman said:
This is obviously meant to compete with the A7s and a7riii's etc.... but those do 60fps UHD - so in my mind it actually has to be cheaper.
Click to expand...

No they don't. Sony doesn't offer 60fps or 10-bit in any a7 model. Their next video-oriented mirrorless body (a7S III or whatever they call it) is expected to give us all that, but so far the only indication we have that this will be the case is that, if it doesn't shoot 4k 60fps and internal 10-bit, we'll just laugh the Sony representative out of the stage.
 
Samuel H said:
No they don't. Sony doesn't offer 60fps or 10-bit in any a7 model. Their next video-oriented mirrorless body (a7S III or whatever they call it) is expected to give us all that, but so far the only indication we have that this will be the case is that, if it doesn't shoot 4k 60fps and internal 10-bit, we'll just laugh the Sony representative out of the stage.
Click to expand...

Not sure who is expecting that. A ton of people use the A73 for video and it doesn't even have 8 bit 4k 60p. If all they do is add 4k 60p in 8 bit I think people will be happy, at least enough of them.
 
NorBro said:
Yea, almost everyone using those cameras does not need 10-bit.
Click to expand...

Just like almost everyone using the C500 MKII and FX9 doesn't need to shoot 6K, 6K RAW or FF. At this point for the Sony A7 variant, whatever it will be called, I agree.
If it doesn't have at least 10-bit 4K 60P with data rates at least at 200Mbps or more, it's a failure as far as features when compared to the PCC 4K/6K, EOS R/RP, XT-3, Z6, etc.
The market, for the most part, doesn't buy cameras anymore based upon need, they buy upon fantasy that more Ks, more RAW, bigger sensors will let them create better work.
Which as we all know, is ludicrous but it works.

Aspirational, feature/spec marketing is what drives camera sales nowadays. Is anyone buying the PCC 6K because it's the best small
digital cinema camera? It's a camera filled with compromises, ridiculous battery life, a non-tilt/swivel screen that is useless outdoors,
basically only the very bare minimum AF, a plastic body that feels like it is fine for work but if you drop it on concrete, it will shatter.
I think most people are buying it because of perceived value for specs. It's cheap and has killer specs. It also happens to be a decent camera but if you go
on most BMD discussion groups, endless discussions of specs, specs, specs. That's the world right now, especially in the low end of the market and the camera
will be a laughing stock if Sony doesn't up the specs and stop protecting the FS5 and FS7 MKII sales.
 
puredrifting said:
Just like almost everyone using the C500 MKII and FX9 doesn't need to shoot 6K, 6K RAW or FF. At this point for the Sony A7 variant, whatever it will be called, I agree.
If it doesn't have at least 10-bit 4K 60P with data rates at least at 200Mbps or more, it's a failure as far as features when compared to the PCC 4K/6K, EOS R/RP, XT-3, Z6, etc.
The market, for the most part, doesn't buy cameras anymore based upon need, they buy upon fantasy that more Ks, more RAW, bigger sensors will let them create better work.
Which as we all know, is ludicrous but it works.

Aspirational, feature/spec marketing is what drives camera sales nowadays. Is anyone buying the PCC 6K because it's the best small
digital cinema camera? It's a camera filled with compromises, ridiculous battery life, a non-tilt/swivel screen that is useless outdoors,
basically only the very bare minimum AF, a plastic body that feels like it is fine for work but if you drop it on concrete, it will shatter.
I think most people are buying it because of perceived value for specs. It's cheap and has killer specs. It also happens to be a decent camera but if you go
on most BMD discussion groups, endless discussions of specs, specs, specs. That's the world right now, especially in the low end of the market and the camera
will be a laughing stock if Sony doesn't up the specs and stop protecting the FS5 and FS7 MKII sales.
Click to expand...

It's all relative, as I say.

- None of those cameras shoot non-cropped full-frame 4K besides the Z6 (without internal LOG or internal 10-bit).
- Only Canon can compete with AF (with a 1.9x crop). No internal 10-bit.
- Only the X-T3 has 4K/60p (with a slight crop on top of the APS-C sensor) but the AF is completely broken.
- Only the Pocket has true internal 10-bit 4:2:2 (Fujifilm is 10-bit 4:2:0) and RAW...with a MFT sensor and no continuous AF or IBIS.
- And other differences.

It's always something. Always.

And who's going to release a better value for a high MP stills camera? (These are stills cameras that shoot video.)

The Sonys are very good cameras and don't need 10-bit to compete. They are consistently #1 sellers.

And so are the Canons and they are even worse with specs.
 
puredrifting said:
Just like almost everyone using the C500 MKII and FX9 doesn't need to shoot 6K, 6K RAW or FF. At this point for the Sony A7 variant, whatever it will be called, I agree.
If it doesn't have at least 10-bit 4K 60P with data rates at least at 200Mbps or more, it's a failure as far as features when compared to the PCC 4K/6K, EOS R/RP, XT-3, Z6, etc.
The market, for the most part, doesn't buy cameras anymore based upon need, they buy upon fantasy that more Ks, more RAW, bigger sensors will let them create better work.
Which as we all know, is ludicrous but it works.

Aspirational, feature/spec marketing is what drives camera sales nowadays. Is anyone buying the PCC 6K because it's the best small
digital cinema camera? It's a camera filled with compromises, ridiculous battery life, a non-tilt/swivel screen that is useless outdoors,
basically only the very bare minimum AF, a plastic body that feels like it is fine for work but if you drop it on concrete, it will shatter.
I think most people are buying it because of perceived value for specs. It's cheap and has killer specs. It also happens to be a decent camera but if you go
on most BMD discussion groups, endless discussions of specs, specs, specs. That's the world right now, especially in the low end of the market and the camera
will be a laughing stock if Sony doesn't up the specs and stop protecting the FS5 and FS7 MKII sales.
Click to expand...

Those buying Sony cinema cameras and those who use the A7 are two different markets though. Yes people use the A7 as a B cam maybe even A sometimes but there is a large amount of shooters with only an A73 in their bag.

Right now nothing else offers full frame 4k with good auto focus.

Color is pretty decent in HLG but I don't own one due to the ghosting at higher ISO's. Most people have no idea what that is though lol.

Case in point a friend of mine really wants to get the Black Magic Pocket 6k, but he realizes it would be completely impractical for his shooting style. So he stays with the A73, despite the large gap in IQ.

If panasonic ever gets around to designing a usable auto focus system that might change things.
 
Nokis-hita is reporting that the camera will retail for $2,000, with the announcement on October, 25th (just in time for PhotoPlus).
 
WOW, at that price this would be definitely interesting... but I need them to fix the cDNG bit depth when recording internally :(
 
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