Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
I appreciate all the kind words! Thanks for saying so!
I appreciate all the kind words! Thanks for saying so!
Cuppajoe_Films
Member
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Nice work as usual Barry. It's amazing that something that makes such an immense difference to the picture you are shooting (arguably more difference than that of 24p vs 30p) is taken for granted. It really goes to show the details are in the pre-production. Shoot with your camera to learn it before you shoot for real.
Keep it up my man!!
Nice work as usual Barry. It's amazing that something that makes such an immense difference to the picture you are shooting (arguably more difference than that of 24p vs 30p) is taken for granted. It really goes to show the details are in the pre-production. Shoot with your camera to learn it before you shoot for real.Keep it up my man!!
dmitriandsnow
Well-known member
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Interesting and easy thanks for a simple tutorial Barry. Was wondering though why is the "off" setting on 1/50th for 180 degree shutter shooting 24fps is 1/48th a second so why not make an off setting the standard film shutter? Also why is it called the off setting? Excuse me if my questions seem to be "why is sky blue" just want to know the undercurrent of this camera so i can go on properly. Also will i be able to manually set it at 48 or is off a preset that can not be modified for 24pa? I am yet to own a dvx but i work like a slave hoping by the end of August i will be able to shoot.
Interesting and easy thanks for a simple tutorial Barry. Was wondering though why is the "off" setting on 1/50th for 180 degree shutter shooting 24fps is 1/48th a second so why not make an off setting the standard film shutter? Also why is it called the off setting? Excuse me if my questions seem to be "why is sky blue" just want to know the undercurrent of this camera so i can go on properly. Also will i be able to manually set it at 48 or is off a preset that can not be modified for 24pa? I am yet to own a dvx but i work like a slave hoping by the end of August i will be able to shoot.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
It's set at 1/50th because -- okay, I'll admit, I don't know why. But 1/50 corresponds to a 172.8-degree shutter, which is also a common film shutter speed, and would be flicker-free in PAL territories under fluorescents or HMI's.
There's probably not a living soul alive who could tell the difference between 1/50 and 1/48, but Canon is certainly going to make a marketing push out of their default 1/48 shutter speed (they default to 1/48 in 24P).
Yes you can select 1/48.0 if you want it, just go into synchro-scan and dial it in. You can select almost any shutter speed in tenth-of-a-second increments.
It's set at 1/50th because -- okay, I'll admit, I don't know why. But 1/50 corresponds to a 172.8-degree shutter, which is also a common film shutter speed, and would be flicker-free in PAL territories under fluorescents or HMI's.
There's probably not a living soul alive who could tell the difference between 1/50 and 1/48, but Canon is certainly going to make a marketing push out of their default 1/48 shutter speed (they default to 1/48 in 24P).
Yes you can select 1/48.0 if you want it, just go into synchro-scan and dial it in. You can select almost any shutter speed in tenth-of-a-second increments.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
For the most part I stick with 1/50 for normal motion rendering. If you're trying to go for "crisp" motion you can try a higher shutter speed, it'll make your video look more "stuttery" but each frame will be clearer with less blur.
For the most part I stick with 1/50 for normal motion rendering. If you're trying to go for "crisp" motion you can try a higher shutter speed, it'll make your video look more "stuttery" but each frame will be clearer with less blur.
futurenests
Member
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Barry,
Thanks for your response about the "stuttering" or "strobing" effect in 24p. I wasnt sure if this effect i was seeing was what was considered 'right' or not. I've embarked on making another short- and for me, learning along the way is working for me. my approach is a bit more organic--sort of feeling my way with this camera and it's exciting to know it better each time..kind of addicting.
I shot some night footage of giant land crabs crossing the road in front of my house in the cayman islands..very beautiful textured look- (the look of the footage, not the squashed crabs having been run over!)i read about graininess prior to my shooting and yes, it is there, but it looks so nice this contrast. i know my instincts say it's great looking, but it is also important to know what camera techniques are possible to emphasize or minimize these effects. I've come to understand/accept there is even in daylight a lot of pixelization on the edges of subjects when there is a high contrast in light/darks, or in motion. if you have any advice about this please direct me to past discussions about this video edge. does this have to do with shutter speeds or again a property of the dvx in 24p? is the overall concensus that this is an acceptable look? is it discriminated against?
thanks so much, ++betsy
Barry,
Thanks for your response about the "stuttering" or "strobing" effect in 24p. I wasnt sure if this effect i was seeing was what was considered 'right' or not. I've embarked on making another short- and for me, learning along the way is working for me. my approach is a bit more organic--sort of feeling my way with this camera and it's exciting to know it better each time..kind of addicting.
I shot some night footage of giant land crabs crossing the road in front of my house in the cayman islands..very beautiful textured look- (the look of the footage, not the squashed crabs having been run over!)i read about graininess prior to my shooting and yes, it is there, but it looks so nice this contrast. i know my instincts say it's great looking, but it is also important to know what camera techniques are possible to emphasize or minimize these effects. I've come to understand/accept there is even in daylight a lot of pixelization on the edges of subjects when there is a high contrast in light/darks, or in motion. if you have any advice about this please direct me to past discussions about this video edge. does this have to do with shutter speeds or again a property of the dvx in 24p? is the overall concensus that this is an acceptable look? is it discriminated against?
thanks so much, ++betsy
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Earlier in this thread someone said to shoot at 1/120 (I think) for slow motion in 60i. What would you do for slow motion in 30p? I shot a wedding recently and used 24p (not 24pA) and when I try to slow it up it gets all jumpy (first time with the DVX on a wedding, playing around you know). So for that particular one I am not using any slow motion. I just want to know for future reference. Thanks for any suggestions. ;D
Earlier in this thread someone said to shoot at 1/120 (I think) for slow motion in 60i. What would you do for slow motion in 30p? I shot a wedding recently and used 24p (not 24pA) and when I try to slow it up it gets all jumpy (first time with the DVX on a wedding, playing around you know). So for that particular one I am not using any slow motion. I just want to know for future reference. Thanks for any suggestions. ;D
dmitriandsnow
Well-known member
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
If you mean what shutter would be a standard relative for 30fps the answer is 1/60th. When shooting under a 180 degree shutter the reciprocal of 30fps is 1/60th. So to properly expose each frame you will need a 1/60th of a shutter. Now it was mentioned that 60i is relative to 1/120th of a shutter, is that with some post production done to actually make the fields into complete frames ? I would think the best alternative for decent quality slow rate would be shooting 30p and playing back 24frames or so. Is my reasoning correct? I need to buy the cam and start testing sheesh..
If you mean what shutter would be a standard relative for 30fps the answer is 1/60th. When shooting under a 180 degree shutter the reciprocal of 30fps is 1/60th. So to properly expose each frame you will need a 1/60th of a shutter. Now it was mentioned that 60i is relative to 1/120th of a shutter, is that with some post production done to actually make the fields into complete frames ? I would think the best alternative for decent quality slow rate would be shooting 30p and playing back 24frames or so. Is my reasoning correct? I need to buy the cam and start testing sheesh..
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Shooting 30P at 1/60 and importing into a 24P project, playing back at 80% speed, will give you a frame-for-frame accurate slow motion. The best slow motion possible from any video camera, in fact -- except that it's just not very slow is all. It's a very mild effect.
Slowing down 24P can be done to some degree, but (and this is a huge "but") if you're not editing in a 24P timeline, the results will be disastrous because of the pulldown. You can only successfully slow down 24P footage if you're editing in a 24P timeline.
Using 60i will give the smoothest slow-mo results possible, if you run the footage at 50% speed (turning each field into its own frame), or, if editing in a 24P project, you'd run the 60i footage at 40% speed.
Shooting 30P at 1/60 and importing into a 24P project, playing back at 80% speed, will give you a frame-for-frame accurate slow motion. The best slow motion possible from any video camera, in fact -- except that it's just not very slow is all. It's a very mild effect.
Slowing down 24P can be done to some degree, but (and this is a huge "but") if you're not editing in a 24P timeline, the results will be disastrous because of the pulldown. You can only successfully slow down 24P footage if you're editing in a 24P timeline.
Using 60i will give the smoothest slow-mo results possible, if you run the footage at 50% speed (turning each field into its own frame), or, if editing in a 24P project, you'd run the 60i footage at 40% speed.
Mitch_Ives
Well-known member
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
[quote author=futurenests link=board=Events;num=1087835287;start=15#26 date=07/17/04 at 08:01:46]I shot some night footage of giant land crabs crossing the road in front of my house in the cayman islands..very beautiful textured look- [/quote]
I bet you could get plenty of volunteers to come down to the Caymans and help out...
Seriously, nice place to hang out and practice with 24p.
[quote author=futurenests link=board=Events;num=1087835287;start=15#26 date=07/17/04 at 08:01:46]I shot some night footage of giant land crabs crossing the road in front of my house in the cayman islands..very beautiful textured look- [/quote]
I bet you could get plenty of volunteers to come down to the Caymans and help out...
Seriously, nice place to hang out and practice with 24p.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
hi, i am trying to shoot a music video where the singer is singing but his motion is very very slow and his lips sync is also slow but it matches perfectly with the song lyrics , its like the music videos u see now days where motion is low but the singers lyps sinc is exact, is it possible with shutter speed or frame rate can u explain.
hi, i am trying to shoot a music video where the singer is singing but his motion is very very slow and his lips sync is also slow but it matches perfectly with the song lyrics , its like the music videos u see now days where motion is low but the singers lyps sinc is exact, is it possible with shutter speed or frame rate can u explain.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Go into an audio editing program and speed the song up so it plays in half the time (if you're editing 60i) or 40% of the time (if you're editing 24P). Make a CD of that new hyper-fast song and take it with you on location. Shoot your video in 60i, with the singer lip-sync'ing to the fast version of the song.
Bring the video into your timeline and tell it to play back at 50% speed (for a 60i edit) or 40% speed (for a 24P edit) and it should line up and sync.
Go into an audio editing program and speed the song up so it plays in half the time (if you're editing 60i) or 40% of the time (if you're editing 24P). Make a CD of that new hyper-fast song and take it with you on location. Shoot your video in 60i, with the singer lip-sync'ing to the fast version of the song.
Bring the video into your timeline and tell it to play back at 50% speed (for a 60i edit) or 40% speed (for a 24P edit) and it should line up and sync.
Chris Messineo
Veteran
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Barry,
As always great info. Thanks for taking the time to share with all of us.
Chris
Barry,
As always great info. Thanks for taking the time to share with all of us.
Chris
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Glad to help! ;D
Glad to help! ;D
andy_starbuck
Well-known member
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
I thought you might find this interesting:
[/td][/tr]
The images were all shot in 24PA. Each shot shows the camera being panned at roughly the same speed, looking out a door towards a distant roofline. I changed the shutter speed and followed the camera's advice to set the iris. It was a bright day, so I started with a 1/64 ND filter and dropped it to 1/8 ND at 1/500th. The center left image, at 1/48th, is very close to the "shutter off" setting of 1/50th at 24PA. You can really see the difference in motion blur in the detail of the glass.
I thought you might find this interesting:
[tr] [td]1/6th (slow shutter) | 1/12th (slow) | 1/24th (f16) (slow) |
| 
| 
|
| 1/48th (f12) | 1/60th (f9.6) | 1/120th (f5.6) |
| 
| 
|
| 1/250th (f4) | 1/500th (f2.8 ) (ND+f9.6) | 1/1000th (ND+f6.8 ) |
| 
| 
|
[/td][/tr]
The images were all shot in 24PA. Each shot shows the camera being panned at roughly the same speed, looking out a door towards a distant roofline. I changed the shutter speed and followed the camera's advice to set the iris. It was a bright day, so I started with a 1/64 ND filter and dropped it to 1/8 ND at 1/500th. The center left image, at 1/48th, is very close to the "shutter off" setting of 1/50th at 24PA. You can really see the difference in motion blur in the detail of the glass.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Shutter speed tutorial...
Can someone please share his experience achieving a filmic inframe motion with the PAL DVX?
i turned of the OIS, i tried differnt shutter speeds - but it still looks like some posterize time effect for me...
deinterlaced 50i footage is more filmic i.m.o. considering the motion...
i never shot film (except some 8mmm
) so maybe 16 or 35mm would also strobe when panning handheld like a crackhead...
i was really looking for finally having 25p, that i'm so disappointed now - i checked the DVX, the SDX900, the XL´2
they all just don't sell for me motionwise, the image is totally satisfying for all 3, but when panning very fast its just like stop-go-stop-go, more like some postfilter...
guys?
Can someone please share his experience achieving a filmic inframe motion with the PAL DVX?
i turned of the OIS, i tried differnt shutter speeds - but it still looks like some posterize time effect for me...
deinterlaced 50i footage is more filmic i.m.o. considering the motion...
i never shot film (except some 8mmm
) so maybe 16 or 35mm would also strobe when panning handheld like a crackhead...i was really looking for finally having 25p, that i'm so disappointed now - i checked the DVX, the SDX900, the XL´2
they all just don't sell for me motionwise, the image is totally satisfying for all 3, but when panning very fast its just like stop-go-stop-go, more like some postfilter...
guys?