Shure FP42 Mixer Arrives

graywolf

graywolf

Well-known member
The FP42 from eBay arrived today. It checks out okay, except the output pots are a bit noisy. The clear up if I rock them back and forth a few times, but I suspect I shall have to go in there a clean them out. Works fine on the three 9V alkaline batteries.

I found that when I took the plastic end plates off it fits in a bag I have. I will have to do something about a way to run cables in and out of the bottom of the bag. I think it will just be a matter of having a couple of zippers sewn in. I will also have to convert the power cable to a removable one.

One of my 48V only mics sounds clean off the 30V phantom power, so it looks like that is not going to be a problem.

Now, I have not actually really used the mixer to record anything yet, so I am not sure how it will work for that, but it does sound okay through the earphones.

FP42-Mixer-1.jpg
 
As a further check, I just now unplugged my voiceover (broadcast style dynamic) mic from its preamp and plugged those cables into the FP42. Set the mixer levels with the tone generator and recorded into audacity. Pretty much works the same as the broadcast quality pre (it actually belonged to ESPN at one time), except the noise looks kind of gritty. But since it is down around -42 to -48 db and the conversational level sound is around -12db on Audacity's meters, I guess that is okay. Looks like this mixer will do for my, admittedly amateur, needs.

Not too bad for $49.99 + $18 shipping.
 
;~)... after all the talk about levels in the other thread I notice this mixer actually has VU meters...
 
Noiz2 said:
;~)... after all the talk about levels in the other thread I notice this mixer actually has VU meters...
Click to expand...

Yes indeed and you can calibrate them too as well as the limiter.

Like most VU's thought they tend to be just bouncing up and down most of the time and at least show that the signal is present.

I have some shure mono mixers and they can be a good starter point and for mixing talkback sources etc.
 
Noiz2 said:
;~)... after all the talk about levels in the other thread I notice this mixer actually has VU meters...
Click to expand...

Well, after the levels thread, I was not going to mention VU's. I actually set the mixer and the computer input to 0 db VU which came out in Audacity at -12 db whatever it uses.

As for the bouncing the meters on the FP42 can be set for peaking or averaging by changing a couple of capacitors in the mixer, according to the manual. I will leave them set for average and let the limiter handle the peaks.
 
I tended to let the meters waggle and the led peak limiter lights guide me as to when it was just getting a little hot.
 
Heezzi said:
Thanks for the feedback. I was originally looking at that device.
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I have the same, and I'm really happy with it. I can provide phantom power to 4 mics at the same time, which I can't with my DR-40. Plus, preamps are quite great for my ears.
Noiz2 said:
;~)... after all the talk about levels in the other thread I notice this mixer actually has VU meters...
Click to expand...
Forgive my ignorance, but can you enlight me on that part?
 
drapeama said:
I have the same, and I'm really happy with it. I can provide phantom power to 4 mics at the same time, which I can't with my DR-40. Plus, preamps are quite great for my ears.

Forgive my ignorance, but can you enlight me on that part?
Click to expand...

The thread "Levels???" a few days back. I kind of got blasted by those guys for using a yardstick (VU) instead of a meter stick (PPM or whatever).
 
For what it is worth, I have as you can see in the photo above modified the FP42 mixer to fit in the bag.

My next mod will be to convert the power cord to a removable one. I have verified that there is plenty of room to put in the socket. Stopped by RatShack today but they don't carry things like a computer power socket these days, so I will have to get one from eBay, I guess.

I will also order a short Siamese XLR cable for run and gun use. I was thinking of making a XLR/XLR/TRS cable to have a earphone return, but for use that close up I can just plug into cameras earphone jack. For boom mic use a breakaway cable would be nice, but $300?

The guy in the old usenet posts modified his back in the day by removing the AC power supply, wiring it for a external brick. Had a switch selected return jack installed so he could just switch his headphones back and forth between the mixer and the camera. And put strap hangers on it. I don't think it is worth spending that much on for my off and on usage.
 
graywolf said:
The thread "Levels???" a few days back. I kind of got blasted by those guys for using a yardstick (VU) instead of a meter stick (PPM or whatever).
Click to expand...
I just went through it. I can totally understand your confusion, as I'm lost myself into all those terms!
graywolf said:
For what it is worth, I have as you can see in the photo above modified the FP42 mixer to fit in the bag.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure it worth it. Went through some reading, and honestly, I think if you can simply put the cord in a way it won't damage in the bag, it should be fine.
 
Just keep in mind that a modified mixer has little or no resale value, you wouldn't have bought one on eBay if it had been modified would you?
Use it for awhile without mods and you will understand why people use smaller mixers for location work, then get a smaller mixer, sell off the FP42 to cover costs and it's a win win situation.
 
Well, I can see that I really will need to get my $50 back on this before I can move on. Or, I could stop drinking beer for a month...

First into camcorder test. Wow this thing really does make a difference.

Set the camera up about 10 feet from me, the cardioid mic about 18 inches, with the mixer setting on the ottoman in front of my chair. Used the osc to adjust the mixer output and the camera input levels. That was zero on the mixer output and -12 on the Sony.

Very easy to adjust the sound from where I was sitting taping myself. Just reach down and twist the knob, instead of having to get up, go to the camcorder, adjust it, then move back and recheck the sound.

About the cleanest sound I have gotten out of the Sony so far. Even the channel I thought was defective sounds clean. Of course I am feeding he camera with a semi-calibrated line level signal. Strangely, to me, the mic gain is only at 4 (with the MXL 603) with the levels in Premiere Pro right where I want them. I even forgot to turn the ceiling fan off, and do not hear it with the monitors turned up.
 
drapeama said:
I just went through it. I can totally understand your confusion, as I'm lost myself into all those terms!
Click to expand...

The reason it can matter is that VU was really designed for the way analog tape works. You want to have as big an average signal as possible since tape hiss is a real issue if your levels average too low and clipping is not as big a deal because it's a soft top (distortion gets worse the more over you go). Digital is almost the reverse. Clipping is instantly very bad and there is no tape hiss so lower levels are not as big an issue. So digital meters are almost always dBFS (starting at something low like -80 and end at a high of zero). There is nothing past zero in a digital stream.

VU doesn't relate well to digital meters, doesn't tell your where you are peaking so depending on the material your meters could be at a nice modest level and you could still be clipping the digital all over the place because fast transients just won't show on a VU meter.

It's not useless or anything but it leaves out some info that is fairly critical if it's your only meter. In this case of course the meters on the recorder will give you the peak and dBFS info so once you use them for awhile you probably won't get surprised a lot.

Nobody was trying to "blast" greywolf, people were trying to figure out what the question actually was and mixed use of terms was confusing everyone.

The reality is that other than hitting numbers required for delivery from post pretty much any system you are familiar with will work. It becomes problematic when one person is talking about one scale and others are responding about a different scale. It doesn't help that old farts like myself were brought up with analog and a very different way of working.
 
Noiz2 said:
VU doesn't relate well to digital meters, doesn't tell your where you are peaking so depending on the material your meters could be at a nice modest level and you could still be clipping the digital all over the place because fast transients just won't show on a VU meter.
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Yeah, the "analog" feel of the VU needle is nice, but it's definitively not as precise as the levels on my recorder (DR-40) are: as the bar comes to a peak, the value is shown on the right (-12dB). But, is you feed the recorder with a good signal that doesn't clip, and your recorder doesn't peak/clip neither, all should be good to go.

Noiz2 said:
It's not useless or anything but it leaves out some info that is fairly critical if it's your only meter. In this case of course the meters on the recorder will give you the peak and dBFS info so once you use them for awhile you probably won't get surprised a lot.
Click to expand...
On the FP33, if the LEDs are GREEN, signal is good. RED, signal is -6dB near clipping. Should be enough to tell if the audio is good or not.
And based on this, when using the SLATE function, you would set the level of the recorder to what, -20, -18 or -12dB? (assuming the recorder has a dBFS).
 
Typically a 0VU reference tone is set to -20dBFS on the recorder. If that results in low levels on the recorder, set the recorder to -18 or -16dBFS. Depends on the sound source, desired headroom, limiter threshold, ect.
 
Rick R said:
Typically a 0VU reference tone is set to -20dBFS on the recorder.
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Provided you're feeding the recorder with a clean signal, even if it's -20dBFS or -18dBFS on the recorder, you can still "pump-it-up" in post while retaining a good quality?
 
drapeama said:
Provided you're feeding the recorder with a clean signal, even if it's -20dBFS or -18dBFS on the recorder, you can still "pump-it-up" in post while retaining a good quality?
Click to expand...

NO. Not a safe assumption or generalization. Experiment with your ACTUAL gear: mics, mixer, recorder, camera, NLE, etc. etc. BEFORE you need it.

-20dB FS is a standard setting for "0dB" on an analog meter. At least for professional equipment with good dynamic range.
But when working with amateur (or "prosumer") gear, many people use something closer to -12dB FS.
 
Richard Crowley said:
-20dB FS is a standard setting for "0dB" on an analog meter. At least for professional equipment with good dynamic range.
But when working with amateur (or "prosumer") gear, many people use something closer to -12dB FS.
Click to expand...
I guess it mostly depends on the input level of the recorder? If I set it to 50 (out of maximum 90) I get something close to -20dBFS with the slate.

My question was, with a clean signal (from a good preamp), having the audio at an average of -20dBFS and peaking a little louder, can we bring that average (with a compressor) to something more audible in post? Will the quality be as good as if it's been recorded around -12dBFS?
 
Levels agin, huh?

Actually actually dbFS is different that analog dbVU. First off they should really be written as dbFS16 or dbFS24, etc. As they vary depending upon the bit depth. What 0 dbFS is is the point where you sound level is using all the bits available. If you think of it you can record a louder sound with 24 bits than you can with 16 bits, and FS means Full Scale, so 0 dbFS is the maximum level you can record period. Levels above that do not clip, they do not distort, they just aren't there at all. In effect, they disappear.

On the other hand dbVU is measured at a reference level, because in general you do not know how much headroom your analog circuit has, so a safe reference level has been chosen for 0 db. Which is about 4 db down from the worse case setups, really good setup may be able to record fine at +20 dbVU which is the equivalent of 24 bit digital, by the way.

OK, those signals brought to a comparible level 16 bit is -12db, and 24 bit is -20db, which are pretty much equal to 0dbVU. The conversions are not exact but are plenty close enough to be considered the same in the real world.

I do not understand why in the world they did not all use the old analog reference and just say that 16bit has 12db of headroom and 24bit has 20db of headroom, and not confuse everyone. Well, I actually do understand why. Jargon is used to to confuse those who are not in the know and prove to yourself you are better than they are. That is why kid's gangs love to use made up or misused words. In other words, childish nonsense.
 
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