Should I worry about copyrighted music?

H

HeyAndy

Active member
I was asked to make a wedding video for my church mates. But it is more of a favour for them than it is as work/volunteer work/freelance work/work experience.

Should I worry about using music being copyrighted if I do think of using them from official artists?
 
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I have used popular songs in wedding videos for a long time. Is it legal? Probably not, but for inclusion in a wedding video, I would not sweat about it.
 
If it is copyrighted it is illegal to use without permission/release.

If you distribute it in any way you are violating copyright laws.

At least in the US, there isn't a way around this.

An acquaintance thought he would not worry about it, and it cost him $8,000.00.
 
David G. Smith said:
I have used popular songs in wedding videos for a long time. Is it legal? Probably not, but for inclusion in a wedding video, I would not sweat about it.
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Were your wedding videos made as your work or were they done out of favour? If the former how can it be okay to use official soundtracks without permission if they're copyrighted?

David,

The video will only be screened for private viewing (friends and family can see it and it won't be part of my work history). Is it still illegal regardless?

Sorry if this is a silly question.
 
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It's ALWAYS illegal. Always. So is driving over the speed limit and any number of illegal things done by people daily. If you are screening for friends and family only, it's probably more like speeding on a back road with no one around. Illegal? Yes. Likely to get caught? No. But if you do, the penalty is the same as if you had done it on a highway surrounded by police.

It all depends on your "risk tolerance". ;)
 
I have done wedding videos for hire. If wedding videos were forced to pay licensing fees for popular songs, or were restricted to the use of crappy canned music, the wedding video industry would be in a world of hurt.
 
David G. Smith said:
I have done wedding videos for hire. If wedding videos were forced to pay licensing fees for popular songs, or were restricted to the use of crappy canned music, the wedding video industry would be in a world of hurt.
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Appropriating another person's property without permission or legal right can be justified on what basis?
 
David G. Smith said:
I have done wedding videos for hire. If wedding videos were forced to pay licensing fees for popular songs, or were restricted to the use of crappy canned music, the wedding video industry would be in a world of hurt.
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I've done tons of wedding videos, have always used royalty-free music, and have never once had a disappointed client. You shouldn't have to rely on popular, copyrighted music to carry your video.
 
HeyAndy said:
I was asked to make a wedding video for my church mates. But it is more of a favour for them than it is as work/volunteer work/freelance work/work experience.

Should I worry about using music being copyrighted if I do think of using them from official artists?
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The first question that needs to be asked: "Where are you located" If you are in the US, and you use copyright material without receiving license to do so by the copyright holder, you are in violation of the law, and could be sued for it. The venue is immaterial. Whether or not you get paid for it is immaterial.

If you are not in the US, there are other laws in other countries, especially in Europe that give the same protection to artists.

That does not mean a SWAT team is going to kick in your door and haul you off to jail, but now you are aware you could be held liable.

But, for me it is more than a legal issue. It is an ethical and moral one. Are you stealing from another hard working person when you take and use their hard work without permission? Yes. I was the victim of copyright infringement, and someone else profited from that theft. I worked a long time on that music and to have someone just steal it without thinking about that, just burnt me up. You know, if they had just asked, I probably would have gladly given permission. But they did not deem the weeks of hard work I did worthy of an email or phonecall, though it was apparently good enough to steal. So I take a hard stance on Copyright Infringement.

When it comes down to it, if you steal something that is not yours, it is wrong. Be it some music, an illegal download, a piece of candy, a car, a million dollars........it is still THEFT. There is no way to justify it another other way. It does not matter if the artist is now filthy rich, as it doesn't give you any more right to steal from them.

Getting permission is so easy to do too, if you just look. Barry gave you a link, also look up Harry Fox Agency. If you plan to do this or any other videography as a pro in the future, do not start down the road of trying to justify stealing someone else's work. Because then it gets easier and easier to think its okay to steal, and the next thing you know, you'll start taking video clips. It been done many times and those people's reputations are forever ruined because of it. All to either not take the time or to save money.

Here's a good way to look at it: Would you like your work to be stolen? No permission asked for use, even though you put a lot of sweat into it?


And since you brought it up........think about this......you will be in a church on top of that................... come on, give me a break.
 
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Give the wedding client the copyrighted music on their own DVD provided the client gave you the music. Technically they'd be legal playing the DVD as long as someone in the residence was not listening to the same song at the same time on a different device. It's called "time shifting". For Vimeo and YOUTUBE and your demo reel use live music as performed during a wedding or reception. Re-edit to use this music as necessary. The performance may be copyrighted by the performers but the spiders won't find the music online since it is original. Go download for free Lessig's book THE FUTURE OF IDEAS http://www.the-future-of-ideas.com/ and then shoot everything from now on with music you made from scratch on hand made instruments in a white room without any clothes on talent (copyrighted) and without and furniture or props not made from hand.
 
Goetzpd, are you absolutely sure about it being legal to do so? Once you re-record or duplicate copyrighted material without license to do so, and give it to someone else, that is copyright infringement. I'd be careful of saying otherwise, especially if you are not 100% percent sure from a legal standpoint.

The only time you are allowed to make a duplicate of a song without it being CI, is when you have purchased a copy of that song/CD and you turn it into a different format for archival purposes (like making an MP3 from a track on a CD). The permission for this is in the Copyright Law. But this is only for personal use and not to be given out or played publicly. And the minute you publicly share that music or make a single copy of it to give to someone else, that is copyright infringement. I could use any music I want on any video I made, as long as it never sees the light of day. The second I share it with someone, it becomes Copyright Infringement. And do you think for a second that wedding video will not be shown to other people? Or end up on Youtube? And as the "producer" of the video, he could be held liable more-so for CI because the clients decided to share it, as he is the "expert" in this, and should have known better, as he does now.

Someone who is a lawyer here in this thread has just said it is CI as well.
The performance may be copyrighted by the performers but the spiders won't find the music online since it is original.
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Why would you need to hide it from the webcrawlers, if it is legal to do what you said? There is more to a copyright than just the recording. That is just the SR. The PA also cover the artistic side (lyrics, arrangement, etc.) Cover bands get in a lot of trouble for doing what you just said for him to do.

Look if the OP doesn't want to do a bit of legwork to get a license to use the music, then he can do what every other wedding does in that case. Use public domain music. You think wedding chapels use those songs just because they sound good? No, it because they are free to use and don't need a license to be recorded/played in a public venue.
 
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Yes, one is a mechanical license, the other is a - I forget the term - license. But if he records the music playing in the hall in the video or takes a feed, that is one form of CI, and that one also falls on the church. If he adds the music in post, thats another form of CI and falls squarely on him.

Here, this will help: Licenses
 
Aw man, another thread about copyright. Cue:

1. advice that everybody does it and you probably won't get caught
2. obligatory mention of the occasional horror story of a multi-thousand-dollar lawsuit
3. while others reprimand you for even thinking about stealing someone's property

#1 is true. There are thousands of wedding videos made every year with several copyrighted songs in their soundtracks. These people are making hundreds or even thousands of dollars per video while breaking copyright. Besides that, we all know that millions of videos are uploaded in flagrant view of the whole world onto Youtube (and others), and probably a good chunk of these are violating somebody's copyright somewhere.

#2 is true. I have heard of exactly two --- well, three if you include the one in this thread. I've been involved in various kinds of moviemaking for about 20 years. But the horror stories are real. Just look at how the RIAA sued single moms for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you'll see that judges don't always serve justice in these cases.

#3 was me --- until a few years ago. The first nail in the coffin was that following copyright to the letter is literally impracticable. You can't do it. I mean you really can't. If you devoted every waking moment to try to stay within the letter of copyright you would fail. goetzpd was basically saying this when he said:

goetzpd said:
shoot everything from now on with music you made from scratch on hand made instruments in a white room without any clothes on talent (copyrighted) and without and furniture or props not made from hand.
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Even if the music is in the video only because the DJ was playing it at the reception and your camcorder happened to pick it up, it is still a violation of copyright, as welll as another law called synchronization rights, which is the right to put music alongside a video.

I have written letters to music publishing companies asking for permission to put their music in my videos. No response. I've heard that the lawyer costs to negotiate a license with small fries like you are more than the royalty they could ask you for. So, they just don't return your phone calls. Except for when they do, and they say, yes, you can put this copyrighted performance of Beethoven in your memories video for the local fire department for $164,000 (actual quoted amount). Or they'll not return your phone calls but will sue you if they see your video on a bad day and they want to take their frustration out on someone. Something like that.

The second nail in the coffin was the conviction that copyright is an artificial right. It is not a natural right, like the right to life. We literally made it up. Because we believed we had to. I believe it was Queen Anne of Britain in the 1700s who first instituted copyright. That's a long time for civilization to go without copyright. So, it's not like a moral right, except insofar as you are morally obligated to follow whatever laws your leaders have instituted (which I believe in, unless they violate some other moral right).

The final nail in the coffin is that everyone copies! And I don't mean, everyone violates copyright. I mean the people who made the song you are worried about copying are themselves blatant copiers! To understand, if you don't jive with me yet, see the three parts (so far) of Kirby Ferguson's documentary (it's only 30 minutes total) called Everything Is A Remix: http://vimeo.com/14912890

On the other hand, it looks like things may be changing. I had not heard of the link that Barry Greene put up, about Zoom Licensing. And David Sacareno's link to the Harry Fox agency may have some way now (I've been there before many years ago) for guys like us to get reasonably priced licenses. So check those out. Protect yourself, but I don't think you need to feel guilty about the situation you're looking at. Buy an extra copy of the song, if it makes you feel better. Just bear in mind that since copyright is an artificial right, it will eventually break down into absurdity if you follow it to the letter.
 
combatentropy said:
Aw man, another thread about copyright. Cue:

1. advice that everybody does it and you probably won't get caught
2. obligatory mention of the occasional horror story of a multi-thousand-dollar lawsuit
3. while others reprimand you for even thinking about stealing someone's property

#1 is true. There are thousands of wedding videos made every year with several copyrighted songs in their soundtracks. These people are making hundreds or even thousands of dollars per video while breaking copyright. Besides that, we all know that millions of videos are uploaded in flagrant view of the whole world onto Youtube (and others), and probably a good chunk of these are violating somebody's copyright somewhere.

#2 is true. I have heard of exactly two --- well, three if you include the one in this thread. I've been involved in various kinds of moviemaking for about 20 years. But the horror stories are real. Just look at how the RIAA sued single moms for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you'll see that judges don't always serve justice in these cases.

#3 was me --- until a few years ago. The first nail in the coffin was that following copyright to the letter is literally impracticable. You can't do it. I mean you really can't. If you devoted every waking moment to try to stay within the letter of copyright you would fail. goetzpd was basically saying this when he said:



Even if the music is in the video only because the DJ was playing it at the reception and your camcorder happened to pick it up, it is still a violation of copyright, as welll as another law called synchronization rights, which is the right to put music alongside a video.

I have written letters to music publishing companies asking for permission to put their music in my videos. No response. I've heard that the lawyer costs to negotiate a license with small fries like you are more than the royalty they could ask you for. So, they just don't return your phone calls. Except for when they do, and they say, yes, you can put this copyrighted performance of Beethoven in your memories video for the local fire department for $164,000 (actual quoted amount). Or they'll not return your phone calls but will sue you if they see your video on a bad day and they want to take their frustration out on someone. Something like that.

The second nail in the coffin was the conviction that copyright is an artificial right. It is not a natural right, like the right to life. We literally made it up. Because we believed we had to. I believe it was Queen Anne of Britain in the 1700s who first instituted copyright. That's a long time for civilization to go without copyright. So, it's not like a moral right, except insofar as you are morally obligated to follow whatever laws your leaders have instituted (which I believe in, unless they violate some other moral right).

The final nail in the coffin is that everyone copies! And I don't mean, everyone violates copyright. I mean the people who made the song you are worried about copying are themselves blatant copiers! To understand, if you don't jive with me yet, see the three parts (so far) of Kirby Ferguson's documentary (it's only 30 minutes total) called Everything Is A Remix: http://vimeo.com/14912890

On the other hand, it looks like things may be changing. I had not heard of the link that Barry Greene put up, about Zoom Licensing. And David Sacareno's link to the Harry Fox agency may have some way now (I've been there before many years ago) for guys like us to get reasonably priced licenses. So check those out. Protect yourself, but I don't think you need to feel guilty about the situation you're looking at. Buy an extra copy of the song, if it makes you feel better. Just bear in mind that since copyright is an artificial right, it will eventually break down into absurdity if you follow it to the letter.
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Incredibly well said. Even for those who don't agree, excellent argument.
 
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