Should I let the client sit with me while editing his musicvideo?

A

Admir

Well-known member
Hi!

I have a client that I'm producing music videos for. I have already done one music for him and one for his brother. They are quite simple, nothing hard nor unique. But he demands once again to be with me every step through the editing. Last time if frustrated the cr** out me since he has no clue how to edit and changed his mind all the time "oh do that again, nah go back to that, OR let's try this.....". His reason to be with me while editing was that he is so extremely picky, but once he sat here he didn't know how he wanted it and quite some times he was like "I don't know... umm.. throw in some more girls dancing... or... throw in me maybe a bit while I'm singing..."

I understand him that the song is in a language I don't understand, but that's why I tell him to give me exactly what part of the video that should go where in the song and so on... But no that wont work (he gives me half page script and said that you can't get it more precise than that, and that the only way to do it right is for him to sit with me and "edit"). Not to mention, this is a loooow budget production.

IMO if you chose to pay, then let me do the job, otherwise pay me as a DP and edit your own material the way you want it.
How should I go forward with this, is it normal to let your client sit with you and dictate every little thing, or should I just say that either I edit it accordingly to his "script" or that he can edit it himself/find some other poor sucker to produce it?

Any advice is really appreciated!
 
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I've been bitten by this quite a few times, and with inexperienced clients it is a mixed blessing. In fact, if you are charging by time, it's a benefit with this kind of client, because they will see it is them extending time. If on the other hand, you've agreed a project price, then having the client there costs you money. If you have agreed a fixed price, then it could be best to explain that your usual system enables you to complete the project efficiently, and then minor alterations can be made. Tell him that when he's with you, it's so easy to experiment with choices, but as most don't work, this is extending the editing time. Then give him the choice of letting you work on your own, more efficiently, saving his limited budget - but that if he wants to work in the edit with you, you'll charge the extra time at a special rate, just for him. Explain most clients don't want any extra cost, but if he wants to work this way, you'll be happy to. Be very positive about it, sound as if you look forward to his input, but understand that he may not wish to incur the expense. This usually works for me - and I get about a 50% split of people who realise their 'input' costs, and leave me to it, while the others swallow the costs happily for 'the project' and edit time extends, but pays for itself.

Although it can be very annoying to do and redo changes, I quite like having the client there, because I've discovered with music projects, it's very difficult to guess what clients will think. You have a great idea, do it, and they hate it - but something as simple as a slight colour desaturation they wet themselves over - other genres don't seem to do this.
 
Thank for the input! This client offers a fixed rate for everything, and is absolutely not interested in spending a penny more than that. Maybe it's just me but I can't stand having someone sitting next to me saying what do to when he has no clue about what works and what dosen't. I don't know how many time he said "let's make that into slowmotion". And I don't know how many times I had to explain that we shot it at 24p since he didn't mention anything about that part being in slow motion (not to mention that his lips wouldn't sync to the music). Just explaining everything to him took me over an hour last time...
 
That's what I never do - try to explain complex technical issues because they don't/can't. If you know it won't work, show him the slow mo of the normal rate footage and he'll reject it. I suggest that for future edits you try to incorporate some kind of extended time component, if you can. Perhaps you could word it as £X based on a 3 day edit. If client suggestions extend the edit to a further day, the rate would be £X for each additional day.

I know this would NOT work with one of my clients - and work I do for them, is always a risk.
 
Yep the client is the client and if you dont do what they want they will find someone who does.

But you gotta protect yourself.

My last similar project was quoted as Shoot+2days Edit at a fixed fee with further edits at an hourly rate.

The client clocked up multiple thousands as the second part of the invoice.

S
 
Is he sitting by the baker when he is baking bread for him?

Tell him that music video is your author work, and if he needs only somebody to film and edit by his wishes ( no creative input from your side ), he could hire some wedding videografers to make him music-video..

I don't like baby-sittings clients by editing.. they can see the finall product and tell what to change ( if needed )..

And..right now, I am editing wearing T-shirt and underpants.. I don't wan my lient sitting next to me :)
 
Explain to him that it takes longer for you do do it when he's there, and also you can't just squeeze it in when you have time to do it, but have to plan it because he needs to be there.

Make an almost finished edit and then he can come in and go through any changes he feels necessary?
 
Personally, I think letting clients sit in on edits is a bad idea. The only acceptation to this as others have said is to charge by the hour. That way, it'll take longer but you'll be paid more; sounds fair to me.

Be assertive; agree to a specific number of edits before hand and stick to it. Stretching yourself too far for unappreciative clients will leave a very bitter taste in your mouth and will make you resent your passion for filmmaking.
 
No ! There was a time when this had to happen now a days hardly ever.

As someone else suggested, point out to the client you can cut this job & show him the results & then correct for say 40 hours edit time which is built into the quote (assuming budget already been set ) OR He can come along & sit in on the edit for an extra $50 - $100 an hour due to the fact the edit runs slower & hence will be outside the quote. The added benefit of this strategy is if he does want to "sit in" & he starts f---ing around you can point out "what a great idea, sure I can do that but that will take another 4 hours of additional charges...are you alright with that ?"

There is nothing like additional charges to clarify a clients mind about what they really need, want or can afford.
 
If it's that low fixed budget and drives you that crazy, then your collaboration is ending.

Give him all the footage and let him storyboard the thing off site, you'll probably have to show him how to do it.

Get him to agree with that and proceed, but leave one simple area for him to decide which shot looks better. Say they both look good to you
but which does he prefer. Make sure his credit looks good.

We leave one scene or one obvious 'mistake' for corp. clients, makes 'em feel they're involved and part of it.

Cheers.
 
This annoys me to no end. I think your previous experience answered this question for you. NO don't let him sit with you, unless you take the great advice from paulears and charge for the time.

It's hard because at a certain point in ones career photographers and videographers get a bit firm about these things, but they are always for a reason. I just tell clients, you hired me because you like my work. I know you're worried, but you have to let go and trust - there's a reason I do this for a living.

And like paulears said, if they don't like it, charge it. If they won't trust your professional skills or pay for your professional time, what makes them think they're entitled to it and why did they hire you?
 
I love this forum just because there are so many people with so much experience!

I have told him that it simply takes to much time when he is sitting next to me, and that I can't be as creative as I know that I can be when he is sitting next to me commenting everything and going "okay now show me the whole thing" after every change. It will cost more if he is with me. First he got quite upset and I told him "well go to someone else and you will get the same response". Today he emailed me and said that he will give me a detailed script how he wants it and that "he trust me"
 
"Today he emailed me and said that he will give me a detailed script how he wants it and that "he trust me""

If he was so consistent about his business and put out some musical hit ( that would be all over the radios arround ), he could pay you more.. everybody is sticking nose in others business, but don't finish their own like they should...
 
Well let's put it this way, the work I do for him won't be anywhere near my portfolio that I show for new customers... The music videos I produce for this guy is a bit like wedding videos, you make them as quick and painless as possible. Once I did some really nice lightning for his first music video and he went "no this looks odd, let's just go with the indoor lightning that looks better". So I really don't expect much from him...
 
Most clients are NOT visual, so they are clueless when it comes to editing. What I do when a client wants to get involved, I send them a low-res version of all the footage with a time-code burned in, then the client can send me time-code edits of what they like and the sequence they want it in. Clients are usually bored/tired by the 2nd edit, and will then leave me alone to create the final piece.
 
Love the concept of them getting tired of new edits... This time I was pretty strict also with saying that I will follow his script and ideas, and he will get 2 things he can change. In that way nothing is unclear...
 
It all depends......

If you are Editing a project for a Director you can rest assure he will be there with you. Certain clients can have some good ideas and others not, honestly it's about balance.

Maybe have them sit in once to look over footage and see the general direction you are going after that tell them you need to work and you will send him a cut once you're done. Allow one or maximum two changes after that you bill them and if they want to sit in on your edit sessions then you bill them as well. No need to work with anyone who makes you feel bad, yes we need money but peace of mind is more important.
 
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