Should I even bother submitting my first short to festivals if I'm not happy with it?

sb2012

Member
I know its highly possible for the first film you ever shot to have mistakes because its your first, even if you try to avoid some.


Let me tell you about mine. I was aiming to submit this to a short film contest which was being ran by a popular A-list director. There was only a month left to the submission deadline when I found this out. But the script had already been written way before this, so that was half the battle. Well, here goes...

This was my first short, first film, EVER.


20 min short film. 4 people total. 2 locations. 2 day shoot. One of those days went over 12 hours which is pretty much my fault because 1) I was nervous and never did this before; 2) I didn't plan adequately in terms of what to shoot first (i.e. all the scenes in the bathroom first, all the scenes in the next room second, etc.) in order to make the shooting process flow more smoothly.


1. Prior to beginning the shoot... I was planning to shoot this on my Canon HV20 which had been sitting around in my house for 5 years waiting for me to get my crap together and find time to write/film something. I chose this camera in 2007 mostly because of the Cine Mode and the fact that its great for low lighting shoots (this short film mostly takes place in a dark house). Plus the cost was very friendly (about $800-$1000 at the time whereas everything else was $2000 plus) and it was getting rave reviews. However, when our actress saw the camera during one of our meetings, she didn't think too highly of it due to its small size, she has never read the reviews and didn't know of its capabilities. She assumed it was one of those documentary-style handhelds. However, she introduced me to her friend who is a cinematographer and editor who I'm now good friends with, explaining that he has a much better (and bigger, I might add) camera called the Panasonic AVG 100 (I hope I'm typing the model correctly? I don't think I am). Being that it was one of those $2000 plus cameras I could never touch, I figured what the hell right?

2. One scene involved make-up/FX which I wasn't happy with, a close filmmaker friend of mine did it, but I decided to shut up because a) We only had one make up kit to work with and b) Couldn't afford a decent FX artist.


3. Looking back, I'm not too crazy about the lighting. I like it, it looks very nice, but I now realize it wasn't what I was aiming for. Most of this film was to take place in a dark house late at night so there was to be lots of low lighting simulating that effect. Lots of blue/orange was used. However, what I really wanted was something along the lines of "Night of the Demons" (1988, not the stupid remake).


4. We shot a dream sequence slightly out of focus on purpose to help give it a surreal effect, I felt I could have done something different but my cinematographer/editor said its ok for the dream not to look as perfect as everything else because its a dream. Top it all off, he said there wasn't much he could do in final cut pro to make it more "dream-like" and neither of us have After Effects.

5. My cinematographer didn't have a tripod handy, the reason for that I do not recall, but he assured me that he can hold the camera very still/steady. Unfortunately, that's not the case with about 50-60% of the shots. There's slight/minor shakiness here and there (it's not as bad as a Paul Greengrass film though). Bottom line, I'm not a big fan of the whole shaky cam thing. A part of me was kicking myself in the butt for not bringing my own targus tripod.

6. This was the big one. So my editor friend has Final Cut Pro, I don't. So before going to his place to begin the first edit session, I decided I may be able to save us both some time by making a "rough cut" edit on iMovie which I have. The plan was for him to upload the rough cut to FCP and we can trim/edit/put everything together around that cut. However, the end result was the first cut of the film included both shots from the iMovie rough cut and the original shots from his camera. The issue was that his shots were all clear while my iMovie shots were all grainy and crappy looking. So that was a mess.

It took about 3 months, due to scheduling conflicts, and several edit sessions to make this thing look as decent as it can possibly get. And let me tell you, it's not perfect looking but it looks as good as its going to get. None of this interrupts the flow of the script or anything like that, I'm just worried about the look and all of the above.

A part of me is wondering whether or not to submit it to contests or festivals. Another part is telling me to chill out, it's just your first short film, it's not supposed to be perfect. But will viewers/critics at a festival understand that when they are watching it or will I just have to take the punches? How many of you went through similar issues on your first shoot?
 
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I know its highly possible for the first film you ever shot to have mistakes because its your first, even if you try to avoid some.

The first film you make, unless you're an extremely rare exception, is going to be terrible. It just is.


Let me tell you about mine. I was aiming to submit this to a short film contest which was being ran by a popular A-list director. There was only a month left to the submission deadline when I found this out. But the script had already been written way before this, so that was half the battle. Well, here goes...

This was my first short, first film, EVER.


20 min short film. 4 people total. 2 locations. 2 day shoot. One of those days went over 12 hours which is pretty much my fault because 1) I was nervous and never did this before; 2) I didn't plan adequately in terms of what to shoot first (i.e. all the scenes in the bathroom first, all the scenes in the next room second, etc.) in order to make the shooting process flow more smoothly.


1. Prior to beginning the shoot... I was planning to shoot this on my Canon HV20 which had been sitting around in my house for 5 years waiting for me to get my crap together and find time to write/film something. I chose this camera in 2007 mostly because of the Cine Mode and the fact that its great for low lighting shoots (this short film mostly takes place in a dark house). Plus the cost was very friendly (about $800-$1000 at the time whereas everything else was $2000 plus) and it was getting rave reviews. However, when our actress saw the camera during one of our meetings, she didn't think too highly of it due to its small size, she has never read the reviews and didn't know of its capabilities. She assumed it was one of those documentary-style handhelds. However, she introduced me to her friend who is a cinematographer and editor who I'm now good friends with, explaining that he has a much better (and bigger, I might add) camera called the Panasonic AVG 100 (I hope I'm typing the model correctly? I don't think I am). Being that it was one of those $2000 plus cameras I could never touch, I figured what the hell right?

2. One scene involved make-up/FX which I wasn't happy with, a close filmmaker friend of mine did it, but I decided to shut up because a) We only had one make up kit to work with and b) Couldn't afford a decent FX artist.


3. Looking back, I'm not too crazy about the lighting. I like it, it looks very nice, but I now realize it wasn't what I was aiming for. Most of this film was to take place in a dark house late at night so there was to be lots of low lighting simulating that effect. Lots of blue/orange was used. However, what I really wanted was something along the lines of "Night of the Demons" (1988, not the stupid remake).


4. We shot a dream sequence slightly out of focus on purpose to help give it a surreal effect, I felt I could have done something different but my cinematographer/editor said its ok for the dream not to look as perfect as everything else because its a dream. Top it all off, he said there wasn't much he could do in final cut pro to make it more "dream-like" and neither of us have After Effects.

5. My cinematographer didn't have a tripod handy, the reason for that I do not recall, but he assured me that he can hold the camera very still/steady. Unfortunately, that's not the case with about 50-60% of the shots. There's slight/minor shakiness here and there (it's not as bad as a Paul Greengrass film though). Bottom line, I'm not a big fan of the whole shaky cam thing. A part of me was kicking myself in the butt for not bringing my own targus tripod.

6. This was the big one. So my editor friend has Final Cut Pro, I don't. So before going to his place to begin the first edit session, I decided I may be able to save us both some time by making a "rough cut" edit on iMovie which I have. The plan was for him to upload the rough cut to FCP and we can trim/edit/put everything together around that cut. However, the end result was the first cut of the film included both shots from the iMovie rough cut and the original shots from his camera. The issue was that his shots were all clear while my iMovie shots were all grainy and crappy looking. So that was a mess.

It took about 3 months, due to scheduling conflicts, and several edit sessions to make this thing look as decent as it can possibly get. And let me tell you, it's not perfect looking but it looks as good as its going to get. None of this interrupts the flow of the script or anything like that, I'm just worried about the look and all of the above.

A part of me is wondering whether or not to submit it to contests or festivals. Another part is telling me to chill out, it's just your first short film, it's not supposed to be perfect. But will viewers/critics at a festival understand that when they are watching it or will I just have to take the punches? How many of you went through similar issues on your first shoot?

There's no rule that says you have to submit anything to festivals, much less your first film. In fact, a lot of people would be better-served if they didn't submit their first films.

It's probably not such a bad idea to wait until you have something you're more comfortable with.
 
The first film you make, unless you're an extremely rare exception, is going to be terrible. It just is.

There's no rule that says you have to submit anything to festivals, much less your first film. In fact, a lot of people would be better-served if they didn't submit their first films.

It's probably not such a bad idea to wait until you have something you're more comfortable with.

David, my exact thoughts. I'd even go as far as saying don't put your film online. Unless your the next Orson Welles, then your film will probably be terrible. Does that mean you should give up? Never, it's all about practice. I'm only now starting to reach a point where I'm mildly happy with my films. And you'll never be 100% happy, that's just the way it is. Our goal is to reach perfection, but that's unachievable - so we just try to get as close as possible.
 
Unless your the next Orson Welles, then your film will probably be terrible.

A misnomer because Orson Welles had a tremendous career before Citizen Kane that involved both radio and theatre. Really, all he had to do was surround himself with knowledgeable people and learn the technical side of the camera in order to pull off that film His skills from composition on stage can translate over, as well as story development from both theatre and radio.

Most people who deliver a first film that fails on most levels don't exactly have fields in creative beforehand like Welles did.
 
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My first short film was not very good. Technically it was OK but I chickened out on something in the script that made it go slack, which is pretty terrible. I had gotten a lot of help and to compensate I had promised everyone I would submit it through withoutabox so that we could all get IMDB credits. I did. It costs >= $30 for a submission. I wasn't too in love with it but I submitted it to a few, I think 5 or 6. . It wasn't selected for screening at any. We all got the IMDB credits.

The thing is I learned a ton on that shoot. I learn a ton every time I shoot, as I'm sure you do. If you want to spring for the submission fee and see how you do, then go ahead. If they reject it, no harm to you. No one will see it. Either way you did well to get one out. Have fun with your next one. I will be better and the one after that even better.
 
Trust me, it's all about practice. Learn your craft, work, work and work again. Don't give up. I'm new to the film industry too, I'm doing what I'm doing for 6 years and still when I finish any project I've worked on for a while, I'm not satisfied or I'm hating it at the end. It just the nature of Filmmakers/Filmmaking. Also, I'm thinking that you better not send it to the film festival. Share it with friends, family and with anyone you can. Maybe upload it to Vimeo and ask people for an advice or critique.
 
Every film you ever shoot will have mistakes. If you can't accept that, don't be a filmmaker. Learn to critique and accept criticism well, while maintaining your unique voice and eye.
 
There's a lot more in peoples closets than just skeletons...

Point is, toss this one in the closet and go make some more.
 
...
A part of me is wondering whether or not to submit it to contests or festivals. Another part is telling me to chill out, it's just your first short film, it's not supposed to be perfect. But will viewers/critics at a festival understand that when they are watching it or will I just have to take the punches? How many of you went through similar issues on your first shoot?

Disclaimer: I do not know anything about film making or cameras.

OK.

I just had this conversation the other night with another dvxuser.

Imo, put out what you've done. Even if you know better now, it was the best you could do at that time. That never changes. You will always want to go back and redo things because your learning as you go. But you can't dwell on that. You, imo, have to put out your completed work, even if your not happy with it and strive to do better next time. If you wait until everything is perfect you will never produce anything because it will NEVER be good enough. EVER.

//edit: hehe. No one takes advise anyways, do they? lol.
 
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There's a little bit of a trap with being a perfectionist -- you never end up happy, haha.

By all means, if you aren't happy with your piece representing you in a very critical forum then I would say hold on to it for now and work on your next one.

That being said, I agree with what Gord said; get it up somewhere and get some feedback on it, even if you know it's horrible.
Someone else in the same boat might find it encouraging... or perhaps an old timer might have an awesome idea on how to improve for next time.

The best news is that you already know it needs work!
 
At least submit it to one and get it on IMDB. If you spent that much time and effort getting it done might as well get your IMDB credit for it.
 
Take this for what it's worth but...... often times things are not as bad as they appear to us (we are our own worst critic); on the flip side what we may think as our masterpiece may be laughable in the eyes of others.

Someone may view it as a charming piece of work while someone else may view it as a POS.

At the end of the day if you are not pleased with it then perhaps it's best to keep it in the vault.

My .02
 
Film Festivals are often about politics (how well do you know the people putting on the festival or how well can you kiss their butts) and also a numbers game. How many can you enter? For a decent shot enter a few hundred.

Average entry fee is 35 bucks, so a hundred festivals is 3500 dollars, plus posters, plane flights to attend, hotels, etc.

Average prize is a few hundred bucks, and generally there's no market for shorts.

Make a million shorts, they are great for learning. Enter your Feature film in the Festivals when there's actually a chance to sell it and make those festival entry fees pay off.

Sure prizes are great and all, but I don't think it's worth the time and money for a short film.
https://www.withoutabox.com/
 
Disclaimer: I do not know anything about film making or cameras.

OK.

I just had this conversation the other night with another dvxuser.

Imo, put out what you've done. Even if you know better now, it was the best you could do at that time. That never changes. You will always want to go back and redo things because your learning as you go. But you can't dwell on that. You, imo, have to put out your completed work, even if your not happy with it and strive to do better next time. If you wait until everything is perfect you will never produce anything because it will NEVER be good enough. EVER.

//edit: hehe. No one takes advise anyways, do they? lol.

Haha. Did you copy and paste this?
 
Ohhh god no, I hope not. I may not have much but I can always come up with an opinion about everything. :) -Beers. Kyyyyran.
 
What's wrong with my avatar? It's actually from one of my IMDb credits (well, an outtake), and I'm quite happy to be associated with it.

But I certainly have stuff I'd never list, because first movies are terrible. :)
 
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