Shotgun mic for outdoors?

D

dvxfilmgal

Member
Hey guys!

I'm looking into purchasing my first external mic. Every time I find one that may work it is usually for interior shots but I'm looking for a shotgun mic that will mainly be for outdoor use on the DVX100B. Also, I've been looking into the NTG-2 and it seems really great my only issue is that I want a mic that can get awesome audio when the subjects aren't directly right in front of the mic; they would be slightly off to either side in the front...or maybe up to 10-15 feet away. Also I'm looking for a mic that I can run around with and not have to be stationary. Any suggestions?

Thanks!!

p.s. - I'm looking to stay around the same budget as the NTG-2 (perferably a little cheaper...but I can adjust if nesessary).
 
It's not about the mic - any decent shotgun mic like the NTG-2 will do the job. It's about proper booming technique.
 
well say i have two subjects facing each other at about 5 feet apart and the mic on a boom in the middle facing forward with the two subjects on either side...is it going to pick their voices up good? I'm assuming its just going to cancel them out horribly because its a directional mic...
 
Basically, you need a good boom operator. If you're going to try and go with a fixed mic, you'll have to adjust your shots to try and get decent sound.
 
dvxfilmgal said:
Hey guys!

I'm looking into purchasing my first external mic. Every time I find one that may work it is usually for interior shots but I'm looking for a shotgun mic that will mainly be for outdoor use on the DVX100B. Also, I've been looking into the NTG-2 and it seems really great my only issue is that I want a mic that can get awesome audio when the subjects aren't directly right in front of the mic; they would be slightly off to either side in the front...or maybe up to 10-15 feet away. Also I'm looking for a mic that I can run around with and not have to be stationary. Any suggestions?

Thanks!!

p.s. - I'm looking to stay around the same budget as the NTG-2 (perferably a little cheaper...but I can adjust if nesessary).
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Such a mic does not exist at any price, even if you look at mics 10 times the price of the NTG-2. Shotguns do not magnify distant sounds, they reduce off-axis sounds. 10 to 15 feet away (subject to mic) is very VERY far outside the range where any mic will get decent results - 2 to 3 feet is more typical. A mic that is useful at 3 feet is going to be highly directional and its angle of coverage will be about 15 degrees on either side of dead centre on-axis. At 3 feet distance, that means the aiming tolerance for picking up that "awesome audio" is going to be a circle with a radius about 6 or 8 inches around the speaker's throat. Capturing two subjects without re-aiming the mic from one to the other as the conversation shifts is going to be virtually impossible unless they're so close as to be kissing each other.

dvxfilmgal said:
Do you know of any good unidirectional mics?

Thanks for help guys!
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Sure ... well, sort of. There really is no such thing as a truly unidirectionel mic. There are mics that pickup better in one direction than they do in others but all mics will pickup from any direction under the right conditions. For example, shotguns are quite directional at normal speaking voice frequencies but become almost omnidirectional at very low frequencies. That's why there's no one size fits all mic.
 
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Steve House said:
Such a mic does not exist at any price, even if you look at mics 10 times the price of the NTG-2. Shotguns do not magnify distant sounds, they reduce off-axis sounds. 10 to 15 feet away (subject to mic) is very VERY far outside the range where any mic will get decent results - 2 to 3 feet is more typical. A mic that is useful at 3 feet is going to be highly directional and its angle of coverage will be about 15 degrees on either side of dead centre on-axis. At 3 feet distance, that means the aiming tolerance for picking up that "awesome audio" is going to be a circle with a radius about 6 or 8 inches around the speaker's throat. Capturing two subjects without re-aiming the mic from one to the other as the conversation shifts is going to be virtually impossible unless they're so close as to be kissing each other.
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Absolutely correct.

Compared to an omni-directional mic. a normal gun mic. will get the same sound at 2.2 times the distance.

A cardioid would be 1.7, a super-cardioid 1.9 and a hyper-cardioid 2.0.
 
How far way will you be? If you are not too far from the subject and/or can get a mic fairly close I'd recommend using a stereo mic like the NT4 or similar. I've had mine for a couple months and it's got great sound within about 10' as long as it's not too noisy (traffic, crowd, etc). With a quality muff for wind you'll be in good shape.

Also, another thread here mentioned the HT-320-A which is made in HK. They just sent me one to test so if you're interested remind me in a week or so and I'll let you know if it's any good.

http://www.htdz.com.cn/en/product.asp?fid=227
 
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SPORKproductions said:
How far way will you be? If you are not too far from the subject and/or can get a mic fairly close I'd recommend using a stereo mic like the NT4 or similar. I've had mine for a couple months and it's got great sound within about 10' as long as it's not too noisy (traffic, crowd, etc). With a quality muff for wind you'll be in good shape.

Also, another thread here mentioned the HT-320-A which is made in HK. They just sent me one to test so if you're interested remind me in a week or so and I'll let you know if it's any good.

http://www.htdz.com.cn/en/product.asp?fid=227
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Stereo to capture dialog adds another level of complication in post and is totally unnecessary. The human voice is mono and best recorded with a mono mic. In post the mono dialog tracks are panned to the centre. Stereo is pretty well limited to music, ambience, and SFX.
 
i have been looking at the stereo mic and it seems really great but I also like the low background pick up on the NTG-2. The only thing that I really don't like about the NTG-2 (from watching test clips from others) is that it sounds incredibly muffled and in some cases worse than the on board mic =/.
 
10'.....really? Does a magic bullet make noise in the forrest if no one is there to hear it? Huh.

Regards,
Grant
 
Hi dvxfilmgal,

The NTG-2 is a good microphone, the new NTG-3 is a better microphone. Any chance you could save up a little more?

Your shotgun microphone would not pickup your subjects very well at 10'-15' away, unless they are yelling or screaming their lines.

With two subjects about 5'-6' apart, there's a chance that you could record good dialog only if you aim your mic at them properly. I'm assuming that they'll be taking turns speaking lines, which requires the mic to swing back and forth to cover the dialog. Another possiblity would be rotating your microphone and pointing to the subject who is speaking.

All this requires a good boom operator. We believe in you.
 
Alan: Thanks =D!! I guess I could save save up but the difference between the NTG-2 and NTG-3 seems like it doesn't have a huge difference for me to spend ~$400 more (I know I'm wrong lol). If I have the NTG-2 about 2'-3' away, will it sound as muffeled as it does when you talk straight into it close?

Grant: Does a bear sh*t in the woods?...?!?!...I wish there were Magic Bullets in the woods =D. lol.

Everyone: Has anyone had any experience buying the NTG-2 location sound package (or anything) from the DV eStore? If so, how was it, how long did it take to get your stuff?
Also, the only way to use a dead cat is with a blimp, right?

I little while ago someone recommended that I look at the AT-8035. What do you guys think of that one?

thanks!
 
dvxfilmgal said:
i have been looking at the stereo mic and it seems really great but I also like the low background pick up on the NTG-2. The only thing that I really don't like about the NTG-2 (from watching test clips from others) is that it sounds incredibly muffled and in some cases worse than the on board mic =/.
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If you're hearing clips that sound muffled, that's most often due to incorrect mic placement, usually the result of using the mic too far away from the subject and/or not aimed correctly so as to place their mouth inside the mic's pickup pattern. Over-driving the mic and poor gain staging in the recording chain can also mess up the sound.

All directional mics exhibit a phenomenon called the proximity effect. Within a certain distance, the low frequency components of the sound start to be emphasized. The distance where it kicks in varies with the type of mic: cardioids can get pretty close before it starts to be noticable, hypers start to show it when they're somewhat farther away, and shotguns start to show it while they're still fairly far from the subject. If you hold a naked NTG-2 right up to your mouth and speak directly into it you're going to get a rather extreme proximity effect, along with the sound of your breath entering the mic tube, and you might well interpret that as a muffled sound. All mics have an optimum working range that you should stay within, going neither closer nor farther away. Experienced workers might intrude into the proximity zone a smidgen in order to get a particular timbre they want - radio and voice-over people and musical vocalists in particular often exploit it to get a particular sound - but in general you want to stay just outside the point where proximity effect starts to take hold but no farther beyond that point than you absolutely have to go. It varies with mic type and each specific manufacturer's design but in general short shotguns should be at least about 18 to 22 inches and no more than about 3 feet away from the subject for dialog recording.

Stereo mics are not good for dialog recording (musical performances may be another matter - different sources, different criteria). You do not want the ambient environment sounds in your recording and the wide coverage of a stereo mic will pick them up. Instead you want to isolate the voice from the rest of the surroundings, meaning a directional mic. The human voice is mono and is best recorded in mono - stereo is pointless. In post, you centre the voice tracks between the two stereo channel during the final mix.
 
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dvxfilmgal said:
If I have the NTG-2 about 2'-3' away, will it sound as muffeled as it does when you talk straight into it close?

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You're coming into the realm of truly understanding pick-up patterns for different microphone types. For outside or indoor use, it's really necessary to research a little more what exactly you need the mic to do, as there's not really a one-size-fits-all microphone. There's a short video series that you can find here that gets into microphone patterns and demonstrates how this affects you audio.
To answer the question though, the NTG-2 itself is a great microphone for the price and shouldn't cause any muffling when used in it's proper place. As with any shotgun, if you're picking up audio from the sides (where the microphone rejects audio) it'll naturally sound muffled, as this is it's design.
Best of luck, and hope the videos help you out a little!
 
dvxfilmgal said:


Everyone: Has anyone had any experience buying the NTG-2 location sound package (or anything) from the DV eStore? If so, how was it, how long did it take to get your stuff?

thanks!
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I ordered the NTG3 package (with the free blimp and boom pole) from the DVeStore and their customer service was excellent. I called ahead and asked questions and they were extremely nice and patient. Not 2 hours after placing my order, I had a shipping confirmation and a tracking number. My order arrived a few days later in perfect condition. I highly recommend them :thumbsup:
 
I called and asked a bunch of questions as well!! Okay guys, after doing a lot more research I finally decided that I'm going to order it tonight! I'm super excited =D Thanks a bunch everyone for all your help! I'm scheduled to film a short on the 23rd so hopefully I get it by then and am able to mess with it before I try it out for real. If it turns out as awesome as I'm anticipating, I'll try to post some test clips up and stuff.
 
dvxfilmgal - Was that you that got the Location Sound Package with the Boom Pole bag?If so, I'm the guy you talked to :)
 
Woah! Awesome, hi!!! I'm guessing your Jesse? Anyways, yeah that was me haha! Thanks so much for the help!!! I hope my amazing microphone comes soon, the wait is killing me. I think it's supposed to be here on Wednesday...I should have opt for the teleportation shipping =).
 
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