Shotgun help...

D

DeeVeeX

Member
I have been looking into buying a shotgun mic for my DVX, but I don't know which one would be best. I want it to have a decent range (good quality sound at 15-20 ft), but I don't really want to spend more than $350.

I really like the Rode NTG-2 because it is both Phantom Powered and Battery powered. Is that a good mic? Will it give me the range I want? I was also looking at the AT-897. Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
D
 
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In that price range, that will operate from both phantom/battery, and has decent specs, the only other thing I can think of is the AT897. The AT897 is a little better in SNR. The NTG2 is a little better in sensitivity. It sounds like you're going directly into the cam without a preamp, so the sensitivity might make a difference.

Either of these will give you "good sound" from a distance. But, don't expect quality dialogue from any mic at such a distance.

There are a couple others that meet your price/powering requirements, and they have a tighter pattern good for even more side rejection. But, they're way too long to mount on the camcorder.

-R
 
DeeVeeX said:
I have been looking into buying a shotgun mic for my DVX, but I don't know which one would be best. I want it to have a decent range (good quality sound at 15-20 ft), but I don't really want to spend more than $350.

I really like the Rode NTG-2 because it is both Phantom Powered and Battery powered. Is that a good mic? Will it give me the range I want? I was also looking at the AT-897. Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
D
Click to expand...


I wrote my other response to you about the NTG-2 then saw this message. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but there isn't a mic made on the planet at ANY price range that will give you good quality sound on dialog at a range of 15 to 20 feet away - it simply can't be done. Whether you spend $300 on the Rode, or ten times that on a Schoeps or Neumann, the mic has to be close enough to the speaker, as a rule of thumb, for them to be able to reach up and easily touch it. That means 2 to 3 feet max. Other than the large parabolic reflector "spy mics" sometimes used by sports broadcasters, wildlife videographers, and scientific researchers, there simply is no such thing as a "telephoto mic" that magnifys distant sounds the way a telephoto lens magnifys images of distant objects, the laws of physics simply don't allow them to exist. If you can't boom a mic that close to the subject and will be shooting from 15 to 20 feet away, the only practical option is to put a wireless lav on him.
 
But still, either of these mics (NTG-2 and AT897) will give me better sound quality than the mic on my DVX, right?

So the NTG-2 is more sensitive, while the AT897 will cut down more background noise?
 
Check out this clip. It's of dialogue 5ft away from the camcorder. It compares a camcorder mic (a GL2 in this case), a shotgun mounted on top of the camcorder, and a shotgun boomed from above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQf9W1tx5A

So, the shotgun mounted to the camcorder is an improvement. But, the best, by far, is getting the shotgun off of the camcorder and booming from above.

The improvement will be even more dramatic from 15-20ft away.

But, if the shot you're doing from 15-20ft is a wide shot, then you may not be able to get even a boomed shotgun that close (to keep it out of the frame). So, you might want to consider a lav for that.

I know ... there's a lot to tradeoffs ... there's no one mic that's the right tool for everything ...


So, either of these shotguns will pick up at a distance. But, it won't be real good quality for dialogue unless you find a way to get the mic close.

The SNR difference between the two I don't think is a big deal. Since you're not using a preamp, I think the sensitivity difference is more important. So, if you really want one that also works from a battery as well, then I would go with the NTG2.

BTW, the AT875R (which only works from phantom), is more sensitive than either ...


Hope this help ...

-R
 
DeeVeeX said:
But still, either of these mics (NTG-2 and AT897) will give me better sound quality than the mic on my DVX, right?

So the NTG-2 is more sensitive, while the AT897 will cut down more background noise?
Click to expand...

The NTG-2 has a slightly higher output. Their pickup patterns are quite similar. Don't know where you're getting the idea the 897 will cut out more background noise - I think you'll find them very similar in that regard. Either one would probably be an improvement over the stock camera mic but at 15 to 20 feet from the subject don't expect it to really be very signifigant.
 
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Steve House said:
I wrote my other response to you about the NTG-2 then saw this message. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but there isn't a mic made on the planet at ANY price range that will give you good quality sound on dialog at a range of 15 to 20 feet away - it simply can't be done. Whether you spend $300 on the Rode, or ten times that on a Schoeps or Neumann, the mic has to be close enough to the speaker, as a rule of thumb, for them to be able to reach up and easily touch it. That means 2 to 3 feet max. Other than the large parabolic reflector "spy mics" sometimes used by sports broadcasters, wildlife videographers, and scientific researchers, there simply is no such thing as a "telephoto mic" that magnifys distant sounds the way a telephoto lens magnifys images of distant objects, the laws of physics simply don't allow them to exist. If you can't boom a mic that close to the subject and will be shooting from 15 to 20 feet away, the only practical option is to put a wireless lav on him.
Click to expand...

This is, of course, correct.

To give you a rule of thumb.

If you have an omni microphone at 1 unit of measurement away from a sound source......

You will get the same sound from a cardioid mic. at 1.7 units.

You will get the same sound from a super-cardioid mic. at 1.9 units.

You will get the same sound from a hyper-cardioid mic. at 2.0 units.

You will get the same sound from a short gun mic. at 2.2 units.


So, using a short gun, you just over double the distance that you get from an omni mic.

This enables you to get good sound, but keep the mic. out of the frame - not for working long distance. (This is what the sound recordist with the fishpole is for :) )
 
I think I'll go with the NTG-2. There's a guy that is on DVXUser offering to sell me a used one with a dead cat and a shockmount for $250. I think I'll do that. Any other suggestions? By the way, Jim Anderson, I looked at the Sennheiser 416, and it was way out of my price range. I am just starting out and I think the NTG-2 will do just what I need! Thanks for all the help though.

D
 
If you're looking for the whole shebang, check out this package as well. The NTG-2, a boompole, sockmount, zepplin fuzzy, and cables... it sounds great too, as you can see in this video. Also just a great resource to really get an idea of what that mic can do for you. The Audio Technica isn't bad either.
 
RandomHero said:
If you're looking for the whole shebang, check out this package as well. The NTG-2, a boompole, sockmount, zepplin fuzzy, and cables... it sounds great too, as you can see in this video. Also just a great resource to really get an idea of what that mic can do for you. The Audio Technica isn't bad either.
Click to expand...

From trewaudio
you can pretty much get the same "kind of" package
for $568 http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=764&cat=66&page=1

But a K tek boom pole. Its not carbon, (neither is the rode)
k tek is a much more respected name as far as boom poles.
 
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