Shooting with the FS-100 handheld vs. DSLRs

G

Gene Sung

Veteran
I had a big chunk of change for a Canon camera, but they were all let downs, so I'm thinking of going to the FS-100 or possibly the FS-700. But the FS 100 ergonomics scare me a bit.


For my style of shooting / aesthetic, I tend to do a lot of handheld. I mostly shoot music videos, narrative and more art house type pieces that have a bit more control, as opposed to events, sports and interviews. So I don't have to hold the camera for hours on end. Mostly, just quicker, "Action / Cut" type shots where I have control of the situation. For audio, lots of times it's MOS, or we have a sound guy so I don't deal much with sound either. I also do a fair bit of run and gun either solo or with a smaller crew.


While I have every rig known to mankind, For handheld shots, I find that often I just like to hold the DSLR, use a Z-Finder and stretch out the neck strap as my only 2 contact points. It's very stable and I get great handheld shots that way. I like to shoot with very MINIMAL equipment, which is why I love the DSLRs


I was wondering for those of you who went from DSLRs to the FS-100, how is the hand held aspect of the FS-100? Is it very difficult to just handhold and shoot without a big rig? I went to Samys and held an FS-100 and it didn't seem that bad at all to handhold, but that was just in the store and not on a real job.


My questions:


1) Workflow wise, is it a big adjustment to go from a DSLR to the FS-100? With the DSLRs you can work very quickly. Is that the case with the FS-100. I've done a fair share of Run-And-Gun type stuff where the DSLRs are great. Is the FS-100 small enough to do Run-And-Gun? I think it would fit into my Lowepro backback, so that's a plus.


2) With the FS-100, is it possible to work with minimal rigging and often just handheld shooting with the eye piece or a monopod?


3) Does the increased weight make a big difference for non-tripod type shots?


Thanks for any guidance.
 
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I went from a DSLR to the FS100 and it's a fairly big difference, the biggest let down is the EVF, as Andrew showed in his FS700 video (which shares the same evf) is shivels from side to side fairly easy and you can't lock it in any tighter to stop it.

The side handle really is useless, I haven't used it on my camera since I've got it, it's awkward and doesn't help, I would stay clear of that completely.

If the shots are wide and I don't have to have the camera at eye level and can hold it lower, without the loupe on, then it's pretty good for handheld that way, you can hold it on either side and get some sturdy stuff that way.

With the third party handles that have been released to makes handheld a little easier considering how bad the original 'handle' is, but they only work if you have a external monitor or external evf, because if you use the on-board screen you block it with your arm when holding the handle.

The best option for a handheld type workflow I have seen is to get 2 handles coming off the side at the front and then a chest mount and hold it in-front of you like that, you don't really want this camera over the shoulder as it's too small and the weight distribution is just wack.

You mentioned a monopod, which is almost exclusively the only way I shoot these days, I use the Manfrotto Video Monopod which has the tripod base on it and it's such a great piece of kit, I haven't used a tripod since I bought it. This works really well for the FS100.
 
Hey Liam, thanks for the response

Aside from the fact that the FS-100 has a way better picture, what do you like to shoot with better simply interms of PRODUCTION work flow, speed, ease of use, etc.... The FS-100 or the Canons?

If the Canon 5D3 had all the features of the FS-100, would you use the 5D instead of the FS100 based solely on form factor?

For me, workflow is super important, especially since I usually work with a small crew or solo.

BTW, I also use the Manfrotto Monopod with the Feet. I also use it with a Flag Holder to suspend the monopod and it works great.
 
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FS100 workflow seems to be about as speedy as Canons. And as far as form factor I really disliked
the rigging I had to do for the Canon. I have a decent Zacuto rig right now for my FS100 with Zacuto
EVF and I love it to be honest. Just wish it had a better peaking mode (Zacuto EVF -- Not FS100).

To be honest if your using Premiere Pro the workflow is the same. I do use clipwrap to avoid issues
when filming in full 60p. The LCPM audio isn't supported to well without using clipwrap I recently
found out. Not a biggie though and if you need to film 60p without clipwrap just switch your audio
over to Dolby I think it is? Can't remember never looked always kept it on the highest setting so
don't hold me to the name of the other setting.

FS100 for me kills DSLR's. No sound sync since it has XLR. That's such a time saver...No recording
limit which was big for the event coverage I do. All in all I would not like to shoot on DSLR anymore.
Even though I'm required to frequently...

Highlight roll off way nicer on Canon and profiles were stupid simple. Don't expect that on a FS100.
Expect to tweak settings a bit at least each shoot and expect a bit more red in your overall images.
Can be tweaked to be not noticeable but it requires a knowledge of the camera.

Anyway to sum it up FS100 is a huge upgrade. Red channel oversatures but can be combated as well
as highlights. The codec is really good you won't need an external recorder. Green screen work I suppose
you might but it's still debatable. You will know if you need an external recorder, i've done some successful
green screen work without an external recorder and major grading as well... On a side note
love my Zacuto Handle and EVF. There are also great alternatives to Zacuto including some of our forum
members own creations which I highly recommend as well!
 
gene_can_sing said:
If the Canon 5D3 had all the features of the FS-100, would you use the 5D instead of the FS100 based solely on form factor?
Click to expand...

For me, I couldn't work without some sort of flip out screen, I am usually above the camera, not behind/below so the fact that most DSLRs don't have flip out screens just doesn't work for me. There is 1 major thing the FS100 lacks that DSLRs have and that is some sort of internal mic somewere on the body, not that lug of a mic you have to attach (which mine is currently broken, thats how crap it is), my key audience are not pixel peepers or sound engineers, so for me the convenience of having an on-board microphone to eliminate the use of the mic supplied is important, and sony just aren't listening. It would also help for foley on bigger sets where sound is being recorded off-camera....

*I've used my GH2 on-board sound plenty of times in my edit's and no one has cared to mention it to me.

Bottom line is, I actually have own both a DSLR body and the FS100 and I always grab whatever suited me at the time, run 'n gun stuff I'll be honest, I grab the GH2. The FS100 is not the ideal camera for that WHEN you have better suited cameras around, for me it was just the fact the GH2 is 1/4 of the size.

If I were smarter at the time of purchase, I wouldn't have bought an FS100, I would of gotten an EX3, only because it suits the work I need to do more, but the FS100 has been a pleasurable challenge and I don't regret it looking back.

If I were you, I would hold back on an FS100 purchase, even if you are convinced on one, wait until the second hand market for them drops, as it will, dramatically.
 
Get a TV Logic or Small HD immediately.

It took me 7 months to remove the top and side handle from the shipping box. Now I really like them, both are easy to add and remove shot to shot. My current HH setup is the side handle and a TV Logic 5.6 on a ultralight arm, I reposition each item per shot. I love working with a little square box that quickly adapts as needed.
 
I just came off of several months in production shooting a doc about street kids. I have a 5D2 and FS100, and I almost never used the 5D2. That said, it was not easy. I agree with all the posts above, by the way, which is why the Canon stayed in the bag. I started with the stock setup and a modified loupe, but after finding too many shots that were just not in focus enough and too many with blown highlights (the zebras are just not very accurate on the LCD), and countless days of struggling with the wiggly evf/loupe, I switched to a Zacuto EVF. It took me many days of fiddling and several orders with Berkey systems of oddball rig hardware to get this rigged in a way that was light (enough), portable (fits in a bag) and quick to set up. In the end with the Zacuto it was barely light enough, but it did work, and the rest of my shots were all in focus and well exposed. A monopod was a necessity, IMHO. The reds will drive you nuts though, but are manageable in post.
 
Gene

You mention a desire for using in a stripped down mode

There is one major ergonomic difference betweend the Canons and the FS100 and that is the length.

Ill try and explain this..

When you walk home from the store you hold your shopping by your side - you dont walk with the bag held out in front of you - do that for a bit and your body starts to burn

What you are doing with your shopping (holding it by your side) is getting it as close to your centre of gravity as possible - same with cameras

If you have a Canon with an Zfinder on the rear screen - the camera is about three inches infront of your face, and the CofM of a lens like the 24-105 is about 2 inches in front of that

That puts the CofM of the CameraLens about 6 inches in front of you

Now with the FS 100 - if you use the standard chimney pot and put the camera to your eye the pot is 5 inches past the camera, the camera is maybe 8 inches long and your lens is in front of that

Suddenly you are holding the camera CofM at least 12 inches in front of your head - twice as far as with a DSLR - and that equals twice the strain or more

The FS100 is horrible to hold in this mode - horrible - humans are not built to do this

Now with the FS you hold the camera like a baby (something humans are designed to do) and rotate the screen up and look down into it

So in summary - in a stripped down mode - DSLR are far better for shooting with the lens at eye height - while the FS100 far better for shooting with the lens lower - cradling the baby

Now the joy of an EVF on a wire is that you disconnect the location of the CofM of the camera to the location of your eye

Once you add an EVF or a Monitor you can build all sorts of configurations - now with a DSLR the HDMI lead sticks out of the side (if you have a DSLR on your shoulder - the lead goes right into your ear)

The FS100 the HDMI lead comes out the back and the camera is narrower than a DSLR - so once you rig it with an Elesctronic Viewfinder - the ergonomics go favouribly shooting towards the FS100 being miles better

So - I would suggest that if 'stripped down' can include an EVF on an arm - the FS100 is way ahead - bare bones - its a far closer race...

S
 
Morgan, that was a VERY well done explanation of the ergonomics of these cameras. Thanks for that.
 
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