Shooting sport video[50p 1/250] in low light

[Nicklas]

So yeah, I'm shooting a sport video for a local self defense club, since it's a fast paced action video I need to shoot in 50p (for slow mo in post) and of course at least 1/250 shutter speed to get rid of smear/blur.
But the problem is, during the day it's ok thanks to large windows, and when it gets dark i have to crank the iso up till 3200, so I could still use 1/250 or 1/180.
During the shooting it looked good on LCD, but when I took it home and played it back on PC.. oh god.. the picture looks dirty and softish.. :\

P.S. I'm editing UHD footage in 1080 sequence, for crop/punch in purpose. Hope that does not affect the video?

Here's an example, - https://yadi.sk/i/By0snkY53Ng5d9

P.S. ignore the black spot, it's just to cover the club's logo.

 

[NorBro]

Just my 2 cents...

- Professional pieces would be shot in 25p and 50p would be used when necessary (overcranking).

- If you're indoors and would like better low-light performance, why don't you go lower on the shutter speed (and as a result lower on the ISO).

Maybe 1/100? Do you see a massive difference in motion blur vs. 1/250? (People will notice noise before motion blur.)

- My opinion for the best quality: Shoot in 4K / Edit in 4K. Period.

 

[Cary Knoop]

So yeah, I'm shooting a sport video for a local self defense club, since it's a fast paced action video I need to shoot in 50p (for slow mo in post) and of course at least 1/250 shutter speed to get rid of smear/blur.
But the problem is, during the day it's ok thanks to large windows, and when it gets dark i have to crank the iso up till 3200, so I could still use 1/250 or 1/180.
During the shooting it looked good on LCD, but when I took it home and played it back on PC.. oh god.. the picture looks dirty and softish.. :\

The problem is not a bad picture quality, the problem is not using lights when it is called for!

LED's are cheap and safe and give a decent light quality, alternatively you can rent lights for a few days to make the video.

 

[Nicklas]

Thanks for the advises everyone!
I will use 25p with 1/50 next time. As for the lights, the place isn't spacious enough to put it + filming with lots of kids doing karate stuff such as kicks, etc. is a bit dangerous for light stands

 

[NorBro]

You could still use 60p for some slow-motion when you need it.

 

[Cary Knoop]

Thanks for the advises everyone!
I will use 25p with 1/50 next time. As for the lights, the place isn't spacious enough to put it + filming with lots of kids doing karate stuff such as kicks, etc. is a bit dangerous for light stands

You can't put the light behind a person who watches the event? Or at least put one on your camera!

I am sorry but I am very skeptical about arguments for not being able to use light in general, I think most often people just don't want to bother while at the same time they expect great footage. Without good light you can't have a good looking video not even with a million dollar low light camera. Light makes or breaks the image!

 

[MichaelA]

X2 on the lights. You can also try out the "High Sense" mode, but with discretion. It doubles the set ISO and also supposedly ups the noise reduction. I've used it as called for on some night scenes and it works OK but seldom would I push it in high sense past around 3000 (1500 "normal") ISO. Instead of grain, you could get noise reduction softness or artifacts. Best to use more light if you can.

 

[Design Media Consultants]

As already stated, LIGHTS! Also mentioned only shoot at 50p if you need slow mo. Don't do it on all your shots. And why are you shooting in UHD? That shoot does not appear to justify the need for that level of quality, and there are more camera functions that work at HD. It is hard to judge by one frame but the shot looked cluttered and not well composed. Light properly and control the shooting and focus on a few students at a time. Have a story, shot list, etc. The DVX is not a low light camera so don't try to make it fit a role it is not intended to do. Even low light cameras will not get the best of images unless you paint with the light. The DVX has some great exposure tools, start using them and do not rely on the LCD. It will fool you every time.

 

[Mike Mas]

Hello - Regretfully, you have everything working against yourself to include your position, but I have an easy solution.

What’s really killing you is the fact you are too close and the subjects and they are always changing distance. In a low light situation like yours, you’ll never focus anyone because they always moving. It would be tough to focus a subject even if they were seated in one position in that low light.

If that were my job, I would first perch myself in a corner as far away from the action as possible to broaden your focus distance. Don't move because all you'll do is compound your problems. Pick a pair of guys and follow just them. Next, set your shot for the next pair and re-focus. As they move further or closer than your focus distance end the shot. By moving further from the action it will give you a bit more depth of field in focus. Don't use your zoom - it will make it worse!

Secondly, shoot everything in 4K this will allow you stay out of the action then you can punch in at post to give you an A/B camera look. This will help you get the shot you want without you interfering with the subjects.

Thirdly, Call B&H and for around $100 you can buy this wonderful Duracast multi-temperature LED light which mounts to your hotshot or on your handle. This light is bright! I also have a larger floor set of these which which also run on batteries. No cords or plugs to look for. These lamps are life savers I uses them 24/7 on jobs both outdoors when shooting a model with back lighting and indoors. Infinite brightness control and temperature. There is two sets of less at different temperatures and you have a separate control for each so you can match any temperature. I use this on my GH5 as well, and also use the 2 lamps on moving shots with a helper holding the second light off to the right or left.

This set for $100 comes with two batteries that last for hours and a wall charger. Making it even better, my Atomos Inferno Anton Bauer batteries fits this light and one large battery runs it all day. I included an image with the brightness all the way down to show the multi color led's.

The DVX is a wonderful camera but it likes light!

Enjoy - Mike

 

[Design Media Consultants]

Hello - Regretfully, you have everything working against yourself to include your position, but I have an easy solution.

What’s really killing you is the fact you are too close and the subjects and they are always changing distance. In a low light situation like yours, you’ll never focus anyone because they always moving. It would be tough to focus a subject even if they were seated in one position in that low light.

If that were my job, I would first perch myself in a corner as far away from the action as possible to broaden your focus distance. Don't move because all you'll do is compound your problems. Pick a pair of guys and follow just them. Next, set your shot for the next pair and re-focus. As they move further or closer than your focus distance end the shot. By moving further from the action it will give you a bit more depth of field in focus. Don't use your zoom - it will make it worse!

Secondly, shoot everything in 4K this will allow you stay out of the action then you can punch in at post to give you an A/B camera look. This will help you get the shot you want without you interfering with the subjects.

Thirdly, Call B&H and for around $100 you can buy this wonderful Duracast multi-temperature LED light which mounts to your hotshot or on your handle. This light is bright! I also have a larger floor set of these which which also run on batteries. No cords or plugs to look for. These lamps are life savers I uses them 24/7 on jobs both outdoors when shooting a model with back lighting and indoors. Infinite brightness control and temperature. There is two sets of less at different temperatures and you have a separate control for each so you can match any temperature. I use this on my GH5 as well, and also use the 2 lamps on moving shots with a helper holding the second light off to the right or left.

This set for $100 comes with two batteries that last for hours and a wall charger. Making it even better, my Atomos Inferno Anton Bauer batteries fits this light and one large battery runs it all day. I included an image with the brightness all the way down to show the multi color led's.

The DVX is a wonderful camera but it likes light!

Enjoy - Mike
]

Don't agree. Unless the shoot is just to make a historical recording, then you are right. If the shooter is trying to get a quality piece, he should be close to the subjects. I teach martial arts and there is not as much movement of the body unless they are sparing. The center mass does not move that much. So focus should not be an issue. You can get close and shoot wide, and use light. Also do not agree with shooting in 4k with the sole intention of cropping of zooming in during editing. Also do not like the cheap camera mounted lights, they are only for a last resort when you must get a shot. In this instance the action should be choreographed and the lighting established to create the highest quality exposure and effect. As stated, I have owned MA schools and still teach private lessons. Through the years I have shot MA classes, and never had issues, even using cheaper cameras. Setting up the shots and lighting properly is key.

 

[Mike Mas]

DMC Thanks for the reply - but your dead wrong!

Your comments of “should not be a problem” tells me your only guessing. Not sure how many low light events you have taped, but I’v shot thousands of these low light gigs where the subjects is always moving.

On any closed in sporting event, which as confined like this one, one thing you don’t want is; to have the camera operator and his helper interfering with the event. In this situation your is better off moving to the perimeter of the room at different locations shoot the material. By shooting in 4K, you will have plenty of opportunities to push in for the close ups and you’ll also have a wide shot to give a A/B camera look.

You need to understand these kids are not actors, so in the same respect, they are not going to keep an exact distances from the camera so there is no way he is going to be in focus for more than a few seconds, especially if he is up close to the subject.

In these same shooting situations the last thing you’ll want is too have light fixtures sitting on light stands with plugs and wires draped over the floor. Its a sure bet where someone going to injure themselves and take your lights out. Also, fixed lighting in this shoot environment is surely going to be blocked by other players and will never provide the correct lighting as a camera light will. Keep in mind, anytime your pointing at the talent the camera light is perfectly aimed for the shot, you’ll never get that with fixed permitter lighting.


Regarding your cheap light comments, you need to get up to speed on LED light fixtures, this small lamp puts out the light of a 500 watt fixture and runs for hours on these small batteries. They are high quality with aluminum housing. They have two controls to adjust the separate temperature lamp sets to a match any lighting situation.

These normally sell for $300, B&H had them on sale and they are throwing in the batteries and charger. I’ve been using these camera lights for years, you can’t even begin to compare the shots to the same camera without a light. Not sure how knowledgable you are with the DVX200 but she's not a low light camera by any standards.

Regards - Mike

 

[Design Media Consultants]

DMC Thanks for the reply - but your dead wrong!

Your comments of “should not be a problem” tells me your only guessing. Not sure how many low light events you have taped, but I’v shot thousands of these low light gigs where the subjects is always moving.

On any closed in sporting event, which as confined like this one, one thing you don’t want is; to have the camera operator and his helper interfering with the event. In this situation your is better off moving to the perimeter of the room at different locations shoot the material. By shooting in 4K, you will have plenty of opportunities to push in for the close ups and you’ll also have a wide shot to give a A/B camera look.

You need to understand these kids are not actors, so in the same respect, they are not going to keep an exact distances from the camera so there is no way he is going to be in focus for more than a few seconds, especially if he is up close to the subject.

In these same shooting situations the last thing you’ll want is too have light fixtures sitting on light stands with plugs and wires draped over the floor. Its a sure bet where someone going to injure themselves and take your lights out. Also, fixed lighting in this shoot environment is surely going to be blocked by other players and will never provide the correct lighting as a camera light will. Keep in mind, anytime your pointing at the talent the camera light is perfectly aimed for the shot, you’ll never get that with fixed permitter lighting.


Regarding your cheap light comments, you need to get up to speed on LED light fixtures, this small lamp puts out the light of a 500 watt fixture and runs for hours on these small batteries. They are high quality with aluminum housing. They have two controls to adjust the separate temperature lamp sets to a match any lighting situation.

These normally sell for $300, B&H had them on sale and they are throwing in the batteries and charger. I’ve been using these camera lights for years, you can’t even begin to compare the shots to the same camera without a light. Not sure how knowledgable you are with the DVX200 but she's not a low light camera by any standards.

Regards - Mike

First off, everything you said is a guess. So don't point out that I am guessing. Duh. Obviously we are not there to have all the facts. But you outlaid a detailed shooting sequence without knowing facts. So you are the one totally guessing. In my opinion that is stupid. Period.

The lighting depends of what the client expects. But to get high quality shots of a martial arts scenario requires some choreography and proper lighting. As I stated, duh, if it is only to record the sequence of events as they happen, without interrupting the event, then you would be more limited on lighting. But proper pre planning would also allow you to improve the lighting.

Thousands of low light gigs? Right. Paid gigs I suppose. Sounds like horse manure.

I stated that the DVX is not a low light camera. We have been using the DVX for over a year. Regarding LED lights, all I use are LEDs. And the light you showed, was a cheap on camera $100 light. Now you are changing your tune and talking about other more expensive lights. I am sure in today's age everyone is familiar with LED lights. I have owned martial arts schools and have shot a fair amount of these events. This is not hockey or a professional football games. It appears to be a small MA event or maybe even an MA class. If you plan and know what you are doing you can work around it.

 

[Nicklas]

First of all, I would really like to thank all of you for for the detailed replies/hints/tips & tricks!

On a day 2 filming, I've used a monopod and filmed it all as 24p - 1/48 - iso 1200 - iris 3,8-4,2

The results are way much better than the ones I shot as 50p 1/180 iso 3200! There is some blur here and there, but you don't really notice it unless video is paused during the action scene.

And now some comments:

You can't put the light behind a person who watches the event? Or at least put one on your camera! Without good light you can't have a good looking video not even with a million dollar low light camera. Light makes or breaks the image!

You're absolutely right, light IS essential in every shoot, but I'm in a situation where I'm not paid in advance, I'm on a really tight budget, so I have to rely on what I have

and there are more camera functions that work at HD.

It is hard to judge by one frame but the shot looked cluttered and not well composed.

The DVX has some great exposure tools, start using them and do not rely on the LCD. It will fool you every time.

Yes, I'm going to film day 3 in HD mode for Hybrid IOS, since I'd need to chase & film some fighters, and it's really tough to carry 7 kilos (13lbs) in one hand for more than 20 seconds. (camera + external mic + glidecam XR with weights).
As for the exposition, I'm actively using zebra, and it seems to help



>>>these kids are not actors, so in the same respect, they are not going to keep an exact distances from the camera so there is no way he is going to be in focus for more than a few seconds, especially if he is up close to the subject.


Exactly! Filming kids is already hard, since they move fast, have difference in height and keep looking in the camera, ruining the shot. Also, they're supposed to do what their MA instructor says and I cannot interfere in any way, so zooming helps a lot in this case.


>>>In these same shooting situations the last thing you’ll want is too have light fixtures sitting on light stands with plugs and wires draped over the floor. Its a sure bet where someone going to injure themselves and take your lights out.


That's what I'm trying to avoid. But! If it was a commercial shoot, with lets say just 2 fighters in a ring, then of course I'd have to use 2 light stands and film with 2 cameras, since it would be a planned shot.
But my assignment is to film real life training and compose a small motivating video for kids.