Shooting SD with the HVX200?

P

Peter Reynolds

Well-known member
Hi there.

I did a search, but didn't find anything specific on this topic. I'm hoping I can get some advice.

I'm picking up a new camera in the next month, and I had decided on the DVX100b. Right now, 100% of my work is SD, (and will be for the foreseeable future) so I had dismissed HDX200 all together.

I was wondering though what produces better SD footage, the DVX100b or the HDX200? If the answer is the HDX, I can always shoot SD on the HDX until an HD job comes around. I just don't want to sacrifice SD quality waiting for some magical HD job in the future.

Also, I have heard that the HDX200 is not as good as the DVX100b in low light. A number of posts on other boards have said the HDX is "significantly" worse in low light (like 2-3 stops). This is also a big factor, since I shoot a lot using available light.

Any thoughts you may have would be greatly appreciated. I love the idea of HD, but I'm trying not to be seduced by it.

Thanks in advance.

PR
 
By the way, this is my first time posting on DVXUSER. It really is an incredible site. I'm looking foward to getting to know the DVX/HDX community.

Thanks again.

PR
 
The HVX does a great job of shooting SD on Mini DV tapes but it is a lot heavier than a DVX and that makes a big deal after a while. I have the HVX but would like a DVX as back up because they do almost match in SD mode. P2 cards are great but backup is a huge concern. I have almost lost some very valuable footage and it scared the crap out of me. I think you should go for the HVX if you can afford it, otherwise buy the DVXB now and wait for the new HVX in a couple of years.

Downrezed HD looks good too!
 
The HVX can make excellent standard-def footage, yes. Especially if you're shooting 16:9.

If you're mainly shooting 4:3 DV, the DVX is probably the better bet because of the lower pricetag. If you're shooting 16:9, and want to take advantage of the wider lens and the more telephoto lens on the HVX, it definitely has a lot to recommend it.

However, there are a few things the DVX still does better when it comes to SD/DV. First, the DVX is one stop faster in progressive mode, and two stops faster in interlaced mode. Second, there appears to be some manner of interlace aliasing situation that I've had shown to me but haven't been able to get to the bottom of yet, so for interlaced DV 60i acquisition I'd recommend the DVX over the HVX. For most everything else, the HVX earns its additional price premium, but in DV shooting the DVX is very competitive with the HVX and has an advantage as far as sensitivity goes.
 
But The hvx does dvcpro50. Isn't that an sd mode? If it is, isn't that a lot better than the dvx's sd? (If this is a dumb question, I hope I don't get yelled at.)
 
dvcpro50. Isn't that an sd mode? If it is, isn't that a lot better than the dvx's sd
Click to expand...
Not that I am a HVX owner, but I can answer this: You can't record DVCPro50 onto tape. There goes one of your doubts...;) Btw, yes DVCPRo50 is a much higher resolution than 480 SD, they say comparable to DigiBeta...
 
volcano said:
Not that I am a HVX owner, but I can answer this: You can't record DVCPro50 onto tape. There goes one of your doubts...;) Btw, yes DVCPRo50 is a much higher resolution than 480 SD, they say comparable to DigiBeta...
Click to expand...

Actually the RESOLUTION is virtually the same as DV, it the COLOR SPACE 4:2:2 VS 4:2:0 and LOWER COMPRESSION that makes it a better recording format.
 
Hi Mcgee,
I didnt know that, thanks for clearing that up... So what do you think about the comparison to Digibeta?
 
I would have to agree with an earlier post. If you can afford the HVX, get it! It will protect you for future endeavors. Because if you ever get a chance to shoot HD, you got it covered. But, if you dont have the cash to do it, then DVX100B.
 
Wow. Thanks. This is a great help.

I never heard about the DVCPro50. Is it comparable to DigiBeta? If so, I'm assuming I can edit it on my NLE - Premier Pro 1.5?

However, I'm still nagged by that low light issue. The cost difference I can deal with, but 2-stops faster in Interlaced 60i mode? That's a tough one.

[Note: Forgive my ignorance, but I'm assuming that for standard "video" acquisition (not 24p) I would want to capture at 60i. If I'm wrong please let me know].

Thanks again for all the great suggestions.

PR.
 
don't assume too much. make sure you read up on the pitfalls of editing HVX footage with Premiere. Not sure if the codec from Cineform handle DVCPro50 but don't assume you can just shot, plug in your camera to Premiere and start cutting.

and you will need P2 cards to do DVCPro50
 
volcano said:
Hi Mcgee,
I didnt know that, thanks for clearing that up... So what do you think about the comparison to Digibeta?
Click to expand...

DVCPro 50 out of the HVX looks every bit as good as any Dbeta camera, and, more importantly, keys just as well.
 
I shot an interview with the two cameras set up exactly the same... DVX and HVX in SD mode. I S O L D MY DVX two days later. NO MATCH. HVX blows it out of the water. (I did love my DVX... but its Apples and Oranges).
 
Re: "you will need P2 cards to do DVCPro50"
"Not sure if the codec from Cineform handle DVCPro50 "

Sorry, I thought you could record DVCPro50 to tape. If not, what is the maximum SD quality/format you can record to tape. I would not be recording to the P2 cards.

Also, I realize that Premier 1.5 doesn't support HD, but I assumed it supported all other SD formats. Am I being naive? If so, does Adobe offer codexs to download (I don't see it on their site). Perhaps I have to purchase another version of Premier?

Still confused, but now a little more informed.

P.R.
 
The maximum you can shoot to tape on the HVX is standard-def DV.

Premiere can edit DVCPRO50 if you use Raylight, and download the free Matrox DVCPRO50 codec.
 
A week ago a client asked me to come to a multicamera shoot on a stage and pickup some handheld stuff for her to use for opens and transitions. She was shooting with 4 Phillips full size SD studio cameras on pedestals. I shot SD DVCPro50 progressive with the HVX. The footage was incredibly good. When the director looked at it later in post, she was shocked, thought it looked better than her studio footage.

I do see a little bit of aliasing on hard edges, but the skin tones looked so good nobody would ever see the aliasing, they would just be gawking at the faces.

Only problem was getting only 8 minutes on a 4gig P2 card
You can capture live via firewire to Final Cut but I don't know about Premier.

DVCPro50 looks much better than DV. At least if you have the HVX and choose to shoot DV, you can do that and still be able to shoot other formats for other shows.
 
So as I understand it, you actually can get much better sd footage out of the hvx, than the dvx, but you can't record it to tape. YOu shoot in dcvpro50 on the p2 card, then convert to get it on a dvd or whatever? Right? I also remember the panasonic oracle of delphi (Barry) saying this was the way to go.
 
Thanks again everyone.

Looks like nobody's crying about any "low light" issues, so perhaps that's been blown out of proportion.

So to summarize:

-The DVX is better in lowlight than the HDX (but not by much)

-The HDX SD recording (to tape) is better quality than DVX SD.

-The HDX SD recording (to P2 cards) in DVCPRO50 is significantly better than the DVX. It's in fact comparable to DigiBeta.

In the end, it comes down to cost. Here it Toronto, the DVX sells for $3,900 CDN. The HVX sells for $7,900 CDN. I can get a lot of accessories for the $4,000 difference.

I'll suprise you all with my decision in a few weeks.

Take care,

PR.
 
HVX SD mode best settings

HVX SD mode best settings

Has anyone found the best settings to compensate for reduced sensitivity and aliasing in the HVX SD mode?
 
For reduced sensitivity, the solution is to add light. There's simply no alternative; bite the bullet and add light, there's no other way to compensate for reduced sensitivity.

For the aliasing, I haven't had an opportunity to delve into that yet -- just moved across the country, haven't even got the editing station set up yet, and I'm headed out of the country for a few weeks. So hopefully others will have an option to delve into it and see what they can come up with. Near as I can tell from brief playing with it, it's too much resolution for the interlaced recording format, so maybe lowering the v-detail-level or setting "thick" will help control it.
 
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