Shooting scale models

D

dmitrizigany

Veteran
I'm interested in starting building scale models and shoot the for composition with green screen live actors. While I realise it's probably a tricky thing to master, I'm curious to give it a try.

Mostly thinking of interiors, but maybe also some landscapes.

I know nothing about this at this point. What are the best scales (I assume the bigger the better)? What kind of lenses are used for this? Macro lenses? Normal?

Any pitfalls to look out for?

Any my pointers are welcome! :)

thanks!

DZ
 
I've done just a little bit of this, and not for mixing with green screen live actors. My guess: you're going to want to use a small sensor camera, because on a scale model you're close to shooting macro and DoF can get really thin on a big sensor. Both the RX100 IV and the pocket sound like good choices.
 
Samuel H said:
I've done just a little bit of this, and not for mixing with green screen live actors. My guess: you're going to want to use a small sensor camera, because on a scale model you're close to shooting macro and DoF can get really thin on a big sensor. Both the RX100 IV and the pocket sound like good choices.
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So much for my A7s then? ;)
unfortunately, another camera is out of the question, but if there's light enough maybe the FS700 or A7s in crop mode could work at small aperture?
but wonder what kind of lenses would work best?
 
I'd be interested to know what to do about shooting speed to achieve a believable scale. For example, if you build a 1/100 model skyscraper and have it fall down, how fast do you need to shoot to make it look and feel real?

My back-of-the-envelope working says you need the playback to be slower by the square root of the scale factor -- so 1/10th speed in this case. Does that seem right?

In any case, if you're going to have models that collapse or get blown up, that could influence your choice of camera.
 
Interesting thought!
At this point I have no plans of blowing anything up though! ;)

And I don't think I have the luxury of using any other camera then the ones I already own (FS700/A7s). So I either have to make it work with those or give up on the idea for now)
 
dmitrizigany said:
So much for my A7s then? ;)
unfortunately, another camera is out of the question, but if there's light enough maybe the FS700 or A7s in crop mode could work at small aperture?
but wonder what kind of lenses would work best?
Click to expand...

Well, the a7S may be the exception, because you can crank up the ISO pretty high, so you don't need a crazy amount of light to shoot stopped down. Use the APS-C mode and test with something like f/11 or f/16, and see what you get.

BTW: even with diffraction, with most lenses f/16 is sharper than f/2.8 (and it also sharpens quite nicely). Test.
 
More ideas:

http://petapixel.com/2013/10/14/lif...t-using-model-cars-forced-perspective-250-ps/

also - the formula for shooting miniatures works something like this: take the scale of the model (1/5th, 1/10th, etc.), then take the square root of the denominator. Multiply that by the base frame rate. That will give you a ball park frame rate to begin testing. This causes a small scale model falling with gravity, to appear (on screen) to fall at the same rate as it's real world counterpart. However, test, test, test, to get the look you're after.
Example: 1/5th scale model. Square root of 5 = 2.236 x 24 = approximately 54 frames per second. 1/48th scale, square root of 48 = 6.928 x 24 = 166 frames per second.
Of course this only applies for moving and falling models. Static interiors can be shot at whatever speed is needed for exposure. Motion control will be needed for moving shots. You can also try putting the models in the foreground, or using mirrors to reflect the actors into the shots. Digital post production aids immensely, you can spot color correct, roto in shadows, and do lots of things to help get a better match of the miniature to the live action.
 
Models need to be pretty freaking big to not shoot like toys - DOF is crazy, and FOV has a big impact as well.

I'd guess it might be wise to build complex models in layers and stack them in post to avoid DOF issues and still get parallax when there's motion.

For high speed shooting of crashes or explosions - shoot at the max frame rate you can. Re-timing software has come a long way, especially when speeding up footage vs. slowing down (slowing down=artifacts, speeding up doesn't - it's more about frame removal and setting the right motion blur). Controlling motion blur is the icing on the cake.
 
What sort of 'look' will you be trying for?

If you're happy with a stylized/artificial look, then yes you can have a lot of fun with miniature backgrounds, with the non-realistic look even adding to the appeal of the resulting film (e.g. many Wes Anderson films spring to mind). And you have a million creative options, ranging from photo collages to Lego bocks to dollhouse furniture.

But if you want/need 'realism', then be prepared for a lot of work, for all the scale issues mentioned by others above.
 
clang said:
What sort of 'look' will you be trying for?
Click to expand...
I'm going for as realistic as possible.

I'm mostly interested in building locations that would be impossible to find (with limited budget). And mostly interiors in my current plan.

I think I would enjoy the actual building process of them. I used to paint miniatures etc when I was young, and were pretty good at it, too!

I'm also a fan of dramatic light, smoke and backlight, which could help mask the fact that it's not a real building.
Regarding smoke... I guess that can be tricky if you use smoke when shooting the model. (could look out of proportion, and hard to insert actors afterwards so they blend realistically?)

I don't think it will be easy, but I'm interested in this, not just as a means to get the shots I need, but also the process of building the things appeal to me!
 
dmitrizigany said:
I'm interested in starting building scale models and shoot the for composition with green screen live actors. While I realise it's probably a tricky thing to master, I'm curious to give it a try.

Mostly thinking of interiors, but maybe also some landscapes.

I know nothing about this at this point. What are the best scales (I assume the bigger the better)? What kind of lenses are used for this? Macro lenses? Normal?

Any pitfalls to look out for?

Any my pointers are welcome! :)

thanks!

DZ
Click to expand...

Get yourself a copy of the Visual Effects Society Handbook: https://www.visualeffectssociety.com/ves-handbook-visual-effects-second-edition

It's full of helpful info about scale, perspective, shooting speeds (frame rates in relation to scale, etc...), focal lengths in relation to scale and perspective, etc... It's really a great resource.

SB
 
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