Shooting off-road action sports...Which Video Camera?

R

ravencr

Well-known member
Hello,

This is my first post here, and I'm in brain overload reading all the great information here. I'm trying to find a higher level camera in the sub $3K range that will shoot excellent high speed action footage for use on Youtube and DVD's, but primarily youtube. I've watched various videos of the HMC150 and HMC40, and I'm open to other models, as well, but one of the things that attracts me to the HMC40 is the form factor being relatively small. I already shoot stills with my Nikon D300 and carry it in the largest pelican case I can for flights.

I've heard good and bad things about the HMC40, mainly being low light performance and blur in fast panning situations, which is common in my type of shooting. My hesitation to the 150 is the size and of course the cost is a lot greater.

Are there other options that compete with the HMC40 size wise that perform better in low light? I'm guessing most of my shooting will be done in 720/60P.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've read all the threads on the 40 on here, so I'm hoping some folks in similar situations to my shooting can help me make a decision...

Chris
 
If you plan to shoot a lot of sports in 720 and plan to do fast panning, the 150 is certainly going to be the better camera. One of the major attractions of the 40 is that it is sharper than the 150, but you wont get any of that when shooting 720. Also keep in mind you will get bad skew (or "jello") from any CMOS camera when doing fast pans. So you'll really have to weight all of that against the larger size and price of the 150.

The 40 does allow for massive amounts of gain to make up for lighting, but the quality will suffer at those levels, so you may want to compare results from both cameras and see if the quality is worth the price/size difference. I have to imagine most indoor sporting events are lit better than the average wedding reception you will read about, so 1/4" chips may be enough unless you want higher shutter speeds.

There are several competitors to the 40, but really low light ability comes down to the chips used, and the smaller sensors just cannot hold up to bigger ones, no matter which brand of camera. You'll find that with other cameras in the same class, low light performance will be similar and you will need to weigh other pros and cons from model to model.
 
The HMC40 likely has the best low light performance of anything in its size/price group. It's based on the same chip set used in the TM300/HS300 and those cams are more favorably rated in low light than the Canon HFS-10, and JVC's other consumer models.

Not sure how the JVC HM100 is in low light, but the HM100 is a lot more expensive....some say the newer Sony 500 and 520 are low light champs now....but you lose XLRs, and the control of a more pro cam like the "40", and AFAIK, these others do not offer 720p. You could look at a Sony HVR-A1, but that's a reather sdated design and does not shoot anything except 1080i.

So if you want 720/60p shooting capability in a sub-$3k cam, the HMC40 is likely your only choice. The JVC HM100 may have it, but it costs as much as the HMC150 which the JVC does not really compete with.
So if you need a cam the size of the HMC40....I think it looks like its best-in-class at its size/price point, at least for the time being.

Its also worth noting that for shooting off-road events, the smaller size of the HMC40 will give you the extra mobility you will need when changing locations.
 
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I mostly do car videos for which I will be using the HMC40 as my main camera. All my stuff ends up on YouTube or Flash on my site. For run and go stuff it is great as it is not that big/heavy. Also easy to hold in a car. I will be testing being mounted soon.
 
There's more than a few other things to consider. When I found out the 40 doesn't have a manual lens and only servo... that's enough of a deal breaker for me. I'm all about shooting with the manual lens.
 
mcsmooth said:
If you plan to shoot a lot of sports in 720 and plan to do fast panning, the 150 is certainly going to be the better camera. One of the major attractions of the 40 is that it is sharper than the 150, but you wont get any of that when shooting 720. Also keep in mind you will get bad skew (or "jello") from any CMOS camera when doing fast pans. So you'll really have to weight all of that against the larger size and price of the 150.

The 40 does allow for massive amounts of gain to make up for lighting, but the quality will suffer at those levels, so you may want to compare results from both cameras and see if the quality is worth the price/size difference. I have to imagine most indoor sporting events are lit better than the average wedding reception you will read about, so 1/4" chips may be enough unless you want higher shutter speeds.

There are several competitors to the 40, but really low light ability comes down to the chips used, and the smaller sensors just cannot hold up to bigger ones, no matter which brand of camera. You'll find that with other cameras in the same class, low light performance will be similar and you will need to weigh other pros and cons from model to model.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely worried about the 3mos sensors over the 3ccd that appears not to have the jello effect, if I understand correctly. I can't seem to find any other small format cameras like this that have 3ccd...am I missing them? My sports shooting isn't people...it's UTV's, stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEdKwk_iAY But other times at an expo doing interviews with people indoors with rather poor lighting. The challenge when riding in these vehicles with all my camera gear is space and ability to carry all the stuff with me, including my D300 and gear.

Anyone know if there's any new competitors lurking out there for release in the near future similar to the 40 but with 3ccd's?
 
sewolla said:
The HMC40 likely has the best low light performance of anything in its size/price group. It's based on the same chip set used in the TM300/HS300 and those cams are more favorably rated in low light than the Canon HFS-10, and JVC's other consumer models.

Not sure how the JVC HM100 is in low light, but the HM100 is a lot more expensive....some say the newer Sony 500 and 520 are low light champs now....but you lose XLRs, and the control of a more pro cam like the "40", and AFAIK, these others do not offer 720p. You could look at a Sony HVR-A1, but that's a reather sdated design and does not shoot anything except 1080i.

So if you want 720/60p shooting capability in a sub-$3k cam, the HMC40 is likely your only choice. The JVC HM100 may have it, but it costs as much as the HMC150 which the JVC does not really compete with.
So if you need a cam the size of the HMC40....I think it looks like its best-in-class at its size/price point, at least for the time being.

Its also worth noting that for shooting off-road events, the smaller size of the HMC40 will give you the extra mobility you will need when changing locations.
Click to expand...
Good comments...has anyone compared the JVC to the 40 well? I haven't been able to find anything that gives a good test. I like the size of these two cameras...oh, and is the JVC 3ccd?

Chris

P.S. Please don't laugh at me...I'm really a newbie at all this trying to read as much as I can...that video was shot with a very amateur camera and me even more amateur. :) I just hate crappy video like that one, so stepping up to a better piece of equipment that I can spend time learning and mastering is what I'm trying to do.
 
shphotovideo said:
I mostly do car videos for which I will be using the HMC40 as my main camera. All my stuff ends up on YouTube or Flash on my site. For run and go stuff it is great as it is not that big/heavy. Also easy to hold in a car. I will be testing being mounted soon.
Click to expand...
I watched the video you linked to in response to my other post, and for some reason it's very jerky to me. Was that all shot handheld? Do you see that on your computer before uploading to the web? If you don't mind me asking, what software did you use to edit it and what settings and output settings did you use?

Chris
 
Just placed my order on Amazon.com...will plan to post a bunch of video tests...nothing professional, just things I've been wondering about this camera in trying to make a decision. I won't be able to do any of it till after the 12th, though.

Chris
 
I just opened a test account on google just for testing this camera. If you don't mind, I'm importing your already exported video into premier cs4 and outputting it in an unchanged youtube hd format. I doubt it will be good results since it's likely to be double compressed now, but I'm curious if it gets rid of the jerkiness. On your non-uploaded one I just downloaded, it's way way smoother. I'm hoping to try a bunch of different settings within premier to find that ideal, best looking file for use on Youtube.

Do you mind if I upload your video under my test account? It's HMC40Videos.

Chris
 
ravencr said:
I just opened a test account on google just for testing this camera. If you don't mind, I'm importing your already exported video into premier cs4 and outputting it in an unchanged youtube hd format. I doubt it will be good results since it's likely to be double compressed now, but I'm curious if it gets rid of the jerkiness. On your non-uploaded one I just downloaded, it's way way smoother. I'm hoping to try a bunch of different settings within premier to find that ideal, best looking file for use on Youtube.

Do you mind if I upload your video under my test account? It's HMC40Videos.

Chris
Click to expand...

Go for it.
 
I'd say there was virtually no jello effect in that clip, just impossible to keep it steady. I uploaded that original one you posted using the standard youtube hd settings, and it gets jerky again. Have you tried uploading the raw video from your computer using the standard youtube hd settings? What was it shot in? 60p, 30p, or 24p?

Chris
 
Actually I just watched the second one again at full screen, and it's substantially better quality than the 1st one. What's everyone else think?

Chris
 
I'm uploading two videos from the HMC40 as we speak. One using custom output settings from Adobe Premier to match the video quality it was shot with and the other using Youtube's present Widescreen HD settings within Adobe Premier. It will be interesting to see if Youtube looks better using 59.94 fps or the default of 24 fps. It's a basic walk around my extremely messy office in really low light. Stay tuned...the user name on youtube is hmc40videos in case you want to subscribe.

Chris
 
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