Shooting in ProRes What version is best for sit down interviews?

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offbeatbryce

Well-known member
I'm mostly a documentary filmmaker and I will be upgrading my cameras along with a Ninja V monitor to shoot Apple ProRes. Which version of ProRes would be best to shoot in? I've heard mixed feedback in other forums but for documentaries I won't be color grading to any major significance and will have white balance exposure etc already locked in place for interviews which are all done in a studio or on location somewhere. I rarely do run and gun shoots. If it's a sit down interview should I shoot in ProRes LT, 422 or what? I would like to shoot in 4K if possible so I can zoom in post for punch in shots where I see fit. Someone suggested I shoot everything in RAW for my documentary but that seems overkill and would be at least 2 TB for a bunch of interviews.

I occasionally film concerts so I'm guessing this might change what version of ProRes I'll shoot in as with concerts I could see myself grading more heavily for example.
 
LT or 422 are the most common for this (HQ is usually overkill unless the money makes it really necessary and/or the people you're working for are beyond important).

LT = if storage is a concern and you truly do a great job in-camera and there's minor post work.

422 = if storage is less of a concern and you'd like a little more flexibility if needed.

With that said, 99% wouldn't be able to tell the difference on YouTube.
 
NorBro said:
LT or 422 are the most common for this (HQ is overkill unless the money is really worth it and/or the people you're working for are beyond important).

LT = if storage is a concern and you truly do a great in-camera job and there's minor post work.

422 = if storage is of no concern and you'd like a little flexibility if needed.

With that said, 0% would be able to tell the difference on YouTube.
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What if the documentary is going to a festival or local theater or even say amazon prime? Does that change things?

From my own tests LT and 422 was not that much different visually in 4k when I borrowed a camera from a friend and their Ninja.

I'm looking at getting the Z cam E2 M4 and it records H265 in 4k at 10 bit. I know H265 isn't an editing codec but can I shoot in that on the Cfast card and then transcode to ProRes LT or 422 if storage does become a concern when Shooting? There might be days I won't have time to clean the SSD from the Ninja right away but need to continue Shooting. If I trasncode from H265 to Prores does it lose any more quality than if I shot in ProRes to begin with?
 
There's no (or barely any) visual difference even in the HQ one unless you're maybe zooming and comparing.

The difference is in post as the one with the most data can theoretically handle more stress, if you will.

As far as specific deliverables for other people/companies; yes, that can change things. You'd need to ask for/locate a specifications list to see what they are looking for.

___

Z Cam...definitely try H.265 if you haven't worked with it before. It can be rough on some computers, including the transcoding.

But as far as a hit to IQ, I'd say no, nothing noticeable, IMO. But I wouldn't do it and just buy another SSD. They are so cheap and it's less work for you.
 
Others may disagree, but I'd argue that for normal, sit-down interviews, properly shot and exposed H265 will be more than adequate (unless a producer or company is specifically requesting a certain codec). If you are set on ProRes then 422 or LT should be more than adequate. If you totally botch exposure, WB, or composition then HQ isn't going to save you any more than the other flavors (in my experience).

I have to assume that whoever suggested RAW was joking...
 
As of this moment I haven't been told to shoot in a certain format. My main focus is making documentary films for Vermont in the USA where I reside in and they just are wanting history documented but would be thrilled if I could get it on PBS or Amazon Prime for example
 
FWIW these are the capture requirements for netflix:

Capture Requirements:
Capture Format
RAW (X-OCN, REDCODE, Arriraw etc.)
COMPRESSED (XAVC, AVC-Intra, ProRes, or other I-Frame capable formats)
Minimum of 16-bit Linear or 10-bit Log processing
Minimum data-rate of Bitrate of 240 Mbps at 23.98 fps
Capture Transfer Function
S-Log3, Log-C, V-Log, Log3G10, etc.
Capture Color Space
S-Gamut3.cine, RED Wide Gamut RGB, Alexa Wide Gamut, etc.
No looks or color corrections should be baked into the original camera files.
Files must maintain all metadata (i.e. Tape Name, Timecode, Frame Rate, ISO, WB, etc.).
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4K24p prores LT has a bitrate of 328Mbps, so it should be sufficient for Netflix requirements. However, it is less compressed than H.264 formats (such as XAVC and XFAVC), so you may want to bump up to Prores 422 to achieve parity.

My vote is for ProRes 422, which I think is sort of the standard capture codec unless people want something even beefier.
 
offbeatbryce said:
I

I won't be color grading to any major significance and will have white balance exposure etc already locked in place
.
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To some extent shooting a fat codec allows for you to colour if stuff doesnt go quite to plan. "im not planning on heavy grading" might be a better start point.



offbeatbryce said:
Someone suggested I shoot everything in RAW for my documentary but that seems overkill and would be at least 2 TB for a bunch of interviews.


.
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Raw can be 1/2 the size of pro res. check this?


regular prores 422 is 880mbs in 4k which will do your 2tb in no time :)

pro res is not a great bet for those looking to make some backups
 
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morgan_moore said:
To some extent shooting a fat codec allows for you to colour if stuff doesnt go quite to plan. "im not planning on heavy grading" might be a better start point.





Raw can be 1/2 the size of pro res. check this?


regular prores 422 is 880mbs in 4k which will do your 2tb in no time :)

pro res is not a great bet for those looking to make some backups
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So you are saying Raw will be smaller than my 2TB drive?
 
I dont shoot 23p !

--

Seriously to my knowledge 4k 30p is 880, so 24 (and UHD?) would scrape it down a bit.

HQ = 880
 
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offbeatbryce said:
So you are saying Raw will be smaller than my 2TB drive?
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I have no clue how long you are going to roll - so cannot answer.

You should have two dirves anyway to make a back up.

Im saying you need to research proRes and proresRaw datarates as you might be saving by shooting raw which is the opposit of what I think you think.
 
This is how people get confused real quick...obviously all of the data rates depend on the resolution and framerate.

For regular 422 for UHD:

471 mbps @24p.

589 mbps @30p.

1178 mbps @60p.

Then you can decrease or increase (in your head) if you're going down to LT or up to HQ.
 
morgan_moore said:
I have no clue how long you are going to roll - so cannot answer.

You should have two dirves anyway to make a back up.

Im saying you need to research proRes and proresRaw datarates as you might be saving by shooting raw which is the opposit of what I think you think.
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I think ProRes raw (is that an option for him?) Is on par with ProRes 422. Prores RAW HQ is on par with ProRes hq. I'm sure this was no accident.

So I think you only save space over shooting ProRes 4444. Which is cool.

Prores raw sounds great. But I'd be hesitant to bust out a new format without knowing it well.

ProRes-Raw-Data-Rates-768x597.jpg
 
For doco, don't go near RAW unless you have shares in G-Tech.

Stay away from H265 unless you want to put your fist through your edit monitor or transcode all your footage to... ...well ProRes...

Assuming UHD @24p:

ProRes HQ - 793Mb/s - 1 hour = 5.81 GBs
ProRes 422 - 529 Mb/s - 1 hour = 3.87 GBs
ProRes 422 LT - 368 Mb/s - 1 hour = 270 GBs

Test all three. Choose your favourite combination of quality v file size. Tip; ProRes 422 is the sweet spot.
 
ahalpert said:
I think ProRes raw (is that an option for him?) Is on par with ProRes 422. Prores RAW HQ is on par with ProRes hq. I'm sure this was no accident.

So I think you only save space over shooting ProRes 4444. Which is cool.

Prores raw sounds great. But I'd be hesitant to bust out a new format without knowing it well.

View attachment 141045
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The camera I'll be upgrading to allows ProRes Raw via the Ninja V. It's a compressed Raw into 12 bit. I agree that I shouldn't be shooting Raw without know it well.

Bryce
 
Liam Hall said:
For doco, don't go near RAW unless you have shares in G-Tech.

Stay away from H265 unless you want to put your fist through your edit monitor or transcode all your footage to... ...well ProRes...

Assuming UHD @24p:

ProRes HQ - 793Mb/s - 1 hour = 5.81 GBs
ProRes 422 - 529 Mb/s - 1 hour = 3.87 GBs
ProRes 422 LT - 368 Mb/s - 1 hour = 270 GBs

Test all three. Choose your favourite combination of quality v file size. Tip; ProRes 422 is the sweet spot.
Click to expand...

You making up these numbers? lol

As mentioned above, it's 471 for 422.

And 328 for LT and 707 for HQ.

ProRes.jpg
 
offbeatbryce said:
The camera I'll be upgrading to allows ProRes Raw via the Ninja V. It's a compressed Raw into 12 bit. I agree that I shouldn't be shooting Raw without know it well.

Bryce
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I think ProRes raw is well worth exploring. It might be more useful for concerts, though, because if your white balance and exposure are well set in camera, you may not need the power of RAW. (That being said, if you have a high dynamic range scene and very bright highlights through a window, for example, I think that ProRes raw can help you there.)

One caveat about shooting H.265 is that if you can record proxy files while you're filming, it can make the editing process painless while giving you very small file sizes. You start editing with the proxy files, which playback smoothly. Then you export the final project with the original files. the export would go faster with ProRes files, but typically your final video is much shorter than your total footage captured, so it goes pretty quickly anyway.

And you could certainly do it with the Ninja V by recording H265 in-camera and ProRes Proxy (possibly at lower resolution such as HD) in the Ninja V. Food for thought
 
offbeatbryce said:
I'm mostly a documentary filmmaker and I will be upgrading my cameras along with a Ninja V monitor to shoot Apple ProRes. Which version of ProRes would be best to shoot in? I've heard mixed feedback in other forums but for documentaries I won't be color grading to any major significance and will have white balance exposure etc already locked in place for interviews which are all done in a studio or on location somewhere. I rarely do run and gun shoots. If it's a sit down interview should I shoot in ProRes LT, 422 or what? I would like to shoot in 4K if possible so I can zoom in post for punch in shots where I see fit. Someone suggested I shoot everything in RAW for my documentary but that seems overkill and would be at least 2 TB for a bunch of interviews.

I occasionally film concerts so I'm guessing this might change what version of ProRes I'll shoot in as with concerts I could see myself grading more heavily for example.
Click to expand...

You've been given some great advice already, although sometimes there's more to it than "no one will know the difference". For example, I've given higher quality files to please an editor, where I would have been fine with the smaller files had I been doing the edit. Depending on the project, there may be a benefit to not taking away the editor's placebo effect, where as other times it will be worth putting your foot down and opening their eyes to stop from making your life harder in the field.

I just shot about 2TB of interviews using the c200's raw for a project I'm editing. There were no windows and we had complete control over the lighting. 8 bit would have been OK, but there's no comparison when when adding multiple windows in the grade.

But I think your own testing and the needs of others will help you decide more than anything. Plus the fact you're adding a ninja V means you don't mind a bit of pain when shooting, so maybe other tasks like data transfers are right up your alley!?
 
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