Shooting in black & white

Blackout

Blackout

Veteran
Now I know the standard rule of thumb is always shoot smooth and do any color changes in post, but on this last music video the client absolutely wanted black and white, and I explained to her we usually shoot color and do that in post so we have more control... but that during our initial meeting I put the camera into standard b&w film mode and then shot some dynamic mode. Then played it back on a big hd monitor for her to get a feel of what the footage would like like.

Anyway she absolutely was in LOVE with the GH1 b&w dynamic mode.

"SHOOT the WHOLE thing like THAT!" she screamed.

As said well we will get that look but I am not going to use the camera it's better to just shoot in color and do it after.

"Will I be able to see after each take what it's actually going to look like in black and white?"


Well.... it will be in color but I can probably just turn the monitor in black and white.

Anyway long story short... I ended up just chucking the idea of shooting in color and shot in smooth b&w and then added the more dramtic dynnamic contrast look in post. I know many of you will poo poo this but I have to say it made things a LOT easier. No worry about color balance with all the different lights we were using and it made things move a long a lot faster...

Also... I am wondering... if you shoot in b&w... does avchd give more bits to luminance detail resolution? or is that just me dreaming? Not that you would need it with the hack anyway.. but I did this one shot of the opening from her penthouse and the detail in b&w was so amazing it just blew my mind I could see every building leave, tree, little people walking and cars and almost no aliasing or artifacts...

now of course you will see SOME artifacts here this is the youtube version but in my master there is NONE it as absolute crisp detail even on a huge widescreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV_6dM3CntY&fmt=37

(youtube doesn't like slow gradient fade ups)

Note that was just some random screen tests of her location with no lighting no nada just showing her the quality on a big 60 inch hd led lcd.


So would you guys ever shoot black and white or would you ALWAYS shoot color and do it in post?
 
If it's for a client who 100% knows they want black and white and wants to be able to see it on set I might shoot B&W. If it was for my own use on a project I would ALWAYS shoot color, because who knows what you might want to use it for. If I shot some nice shots like you had in that video (telephoto water tower with empire state building) I might want to use it later on for something, and that something might be in color.
 
Yeah if the client wants it that bad, you do what they want. But if you had a monitor on set, you could have set it to black and white even if you were shooting in color. Either way, glad it worked out.

Also I wouldn't know if the camera is reading anything differently in black and white but just how we see the image differently.
 
i've actually been shooting in DYNAMIC B&W for a while and i really love it!

i know its pretty much shooting yourself in the foot for keeping things open for as long as possible/future usage but man i really dig it!

my COLOUR FINESSE 3 was out of action at the time so i was angry at bright colourful footage looking so full of life :smile:
it doesn't really go well with run down derelict locations :smile:
 
The dynamic b&w setting really does have an amazing look for gritty New York city street and subway scenes. Looks like some harshly processed super 16mm b&w film... but without all the grain.
 
yeah BLACKOUT i agree.
i wish i had somewhere like NYC to film, i'am stuck in scotland... i can only get the grassy lord of the rings feel with GIMLI like people in the background haha

gimli_pipe.jpg
 
dont you guys have a forrest in the middle of NYC? central park... its about the size of scotland :smile:

yeah man i hear you, the grass is always greener on the other side syndrome, "man ghettos are the same all over!... same old roper!" (enter the dragon)
 
It didn't look like it to me. Again you can't judge by that youtube video as youtube ads it's own weirdness. The black and white fully wide shots of the city look AMAZINGLY detailed with almost no aliasing. The same scenes shot on a 7D looked like I took too many psychedelics.

Here's a raw mts file of the city from the top of the ghostbusters building:

http://blackout.com/clients/top-of-ghostbusters-building.MTS

No aliasing or at least very very very minimal and maximum detail in the city wide, and the brick lines on the building behind me, and the bushes.
 
i have only been shooting in run down bomb shelters with it, crumbling decaying concrete.

i've not had a chance to shoot geometric repeats for it to aliasing/moire/spaz out on...

...is that where you are finding it? on brick walls and pattern type surfaces?

or have i confused myself? :smile:


"FROM THE TOP OF THE GHOST BUSTERS BUILDING" omg u guys have got it sweet!
 
B&W visuals contrast very well with very colorful sounds.

On the visuals -- nicely done. The water-tower scene is a little shaky for my taste. The wind?
 
Blackout said:
Also... I am wondering... if you shoot in b&w... does avchd give more bits to luminance detail resolution? or is that just me dreaming?
Click to expand...

I think I asked something similar a while ago, and Barry Green came back with 'no doesn't up the effective rate'... so no increase in 'detail' other than the GH13 'fix'.

I think perhaps there's an issue of 'managing the client' here... It is one thing to show a client 'what can be'... but then have the client insist on a specific solution, unless they are really, really.... really aware of the process and that decision's effect...

The Wife offered 'Black & White' wedding photography, which in those days, really did mean B&W film... one bride... blond... asked 'and if I want color afterwards, can I get that'... even her husband to be was a bit embarrassed by the question...

As it was, all went well and the bride was happy with the all B&W coverage... she did have to explain to relatives why they were getting these 'old fashioned' pictures...

While this may not match your client exactly... it has to do with their expectation and what you have to do in 'post' to perhaps correct, or even allow for changes of ideas. If you capture in B&W and then the customer sees a 'cool' B&W + a 'little patch of color' that wows their sox off... well, you then have to explain that you captured in B&W only and the 'color' information is totally lost, and will require a lot of work to 'add some accent back in'... where as had you captured in color, performed the B&W conversion in post, you could have a little 'accent'... that would not make your life miserable and 'cost' the client 'real' money...
 
svecher said:
B&W visuals contrast very well with very colorful sounds.

On the visuals -- nicely done. The water-tower scene is a little shaky for my taste. The wind?
Click to expand...

That was just a screen test that got me the gig....not the actual footage from the shoot. Actually got me a 3 video contract deal they were so impressed with it, and they had a guy there with a red, a guy there with 5d mark II and some 7D dudes, and I got it based on that screen test...and I came in at a way lower price (still plenty enough for me) for what they considered better quality than all the other people they met with.

And yeah that was just some wind causing the jello on that water tower shot... reshot all of it and it came out fantastic...

added cute little thing that most people don't notice.. the last shot of NYC is sped up.... look at the streets and see little people and cars going by at super speed.
 
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Looks very nice. I think as with a still shot in say Lightroom. With a color original, you can adjust which channels to use to go B&W. In a way it gives you options, as when shooting B&W with say a yellow filter or green filter. I think for skin tones, different channels produce or eliminate little blemishes.
 
Yeah... in the future I would probably shoot color but it really wasn't mission critical and the client loved it and we checked every take on a monitor after and if I needed to punch it up or down a bit in vegas I did but really I needed to o very little... I had an excellent gaffer on the shoot and everything came out great except for the lip sync issues which was not my fault (covered that in another thread). So we are re shooting some sync problems and then shooting another video.

Everything moved fairly swiftly with a two camera setup.
 
Uh, guys?

When did it become acceptable to shoot in color and do black and white in post if you KNEW you were going to do it anyway?

You light for B&W very differently then you do for color. It means the makeup people, costume people, everyone has to adjust a bit knowing that it's about tone and not color.

I'm very confused that this is the norm. If you're gonna make it B&W in post, and you know 100% you are, then shoot B&W. It's a different way of filmmaking.
 
agree! If you are filmmaker with any vision whatsoever and commit to a B+W film well shoot it black and white mode. For one thing the viewfinder on the GH1 shows black and white. I like the honest decision of a filmmaker who uses these great tools (c'mon how great is dynamic mode!) and sticks to his guns. Shooting color then transfering to Colorista and hoping for best and then mmm yep, I like, whatya think? Naw lets go back to color.... is for hacks.

You can still adjust the B+W in CC if need be and add tints and hue to the finished project but B+W filmmaking is always about the lighting.
 
Blackout said:
It didn't look like it to me. Again you can't judge by that youtube video as youtube ads it's own weirdness. The black and white fully wide shots of the city look AMAZINGLY detailed with almost no aliasing. The same scenes shot on a 7D looked like I took too many psychedelics.

Here's a raw mts file of the city from the top of the ghostbusters building:

http://blackout.com/clients/top-of-ghostbusters-building.MTS

No aliasing or at least very very very minimal and maximum detail in the city wide, and the brick lines on the building behind me, and the bushes.
Click to expand...


I was just over there today! I am visiting NYC from the west coast for a week.
 
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