FS7: Shoot the way you want it to look in camera

1

1027Films

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I was wondering if there was anyway with the Sony FS7 to basically get the look you want in camera, and then just tweak the color in post a little. I know DPs like Ryan Booth (who is one of my favorites) does this, and I honestly feel like it's a really great way to make someone a better DP, since you have to get everything right on set.

However, with the FS7 I feel like you can't really do that like you could with something like a Canon camera. It seems that most everyone is just shooting LOG on the FS7 and if they are recording a "look" all they use is the 709-A LUT which is still a preset look (right?). The other thing I thought of was using the camera in custom mode, but that is advised against by pretty much everyone I spoken to due to the Sony 'video' look in that setting.

Hopefully there is a way, because I'd love to start practicing more this way. Anyway, thanks in advanced for the answers!
 
1027Films said:
Hey guys,

I was wondering if there was anyway with the Sony FS7 to basically get the look you want in camera, and then just tweak the color in post a little. I know DPs like Ryan Booth (who is one of my favorites) does this, and I honestly feel like it's a really great way to make someone a better DP, since you have to get everything right on set.

However, with the FS7 I feel like you can't really do that like you could with something like a Canon camera. It seems that most everyone is just shooting LOG on the FS7 and if they are recording a "look" all they use is the 709-A LUT which is still a preset look (right?). The other thing I thought of was using the camera in custom mode, but that is advised against by pretty much everyone I spoken to due to the Sony 'video' look in that setting.

Hopefully there is a way, because I'd love to start practicing more this way. Anyway, thanks in advanced for the answers!
Click to expand...

You certainly can with the FS7. Doug Jensen has a free scene file that gives an Alexaish look. Don't remember where it is however.

Of course you can try different settings in the Paint menu until your fingers fall off.

Take it EZ,
Robert
 
1027Films said:
Hey guys,

I was wondering if there was anyway with the Sony FS7 to basically get the look you want in camera, and then just tweak the color in post a little. I know DPs like Ryan Booth (who is one of my favorites) does this, and I honestly feel like it's a really great way to make someone a better DP, since you have to get everything right on set.

However, with the FS7 I feel like you can't really do that like you could with something like a Canon camera. It seems that most everyone is just shooting LOG on the FS7 and if they are recording a "look" all they use is the 709-A LUT which is still a preset look (right?). The other thing I thought of was using the camera in custom mode, but that is advised against by pretty much everyone I spoken to due to the Sony 'video' look in that setting.

Hopefully there is a way, because I'd love to start practicing more this way. Anyway, thanks in advanced for the answers!
Click to expand...

+1 on infohou's reply. If you don't want to use CUSTOM mode you can create any look you like by creating a custom 3D user LUT and burning it in. But I think that lighting, camera angles, lens choice are the best "look" you can create.
 
Do you have monitor that can display custom LUTs? For me that was the best solution so I can still shoot log but see what my custom LUT will look like
 
broughtonfilm said:
If you don't want to use CUSTOM mode you can create any look you like by creating a custom 3D user LUT and burning it in.
Click to expand...

With that you can create any look you want, and get it right away straight out of camera. You have the freedom to do anything right away.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't do that with the Canon C-series line.
 
Invest into a SmallHD 502 or a similar monitor that can accurately display a custom LUT. While I still use traditional exposure methods, the LUT really helps give you a sense of the look of the scene right there for other "non" camera people and even myself. On bigger shoots, I push this "LUT" image to a bigger external monitor I rent for nitpicking and fine tuning as much as I can to save time in post.
 
1027Films said:
Hey guys,

I was wondering if there was anyway with the Sony FS7 to basically get the look you want in camera, and then just tweak the color in post a little. I know DPs like Ryan Booth (who is one of my favorites) does this, and I honestly feel like it's a really great way to make someone a better DP, since you have to get everything right on set.

However, with the FS7 I feel like you can't really do that like you could with something like a Canon camera. It seems that most everyone is just shooting LOG on the FS7 and if they are recording a "look" all they use is the 709-A LUT which is still a preset look (right?). The other thing I thought of was using the camera in custom mode, but that is advised against by pretty much everyone I spoken to due to the Sony 'video' look in that setting.

Hopefully there is a way, because I'd love to start practicing more this way. Anyway, thanks in advanced for the answers!
Click to expand...

This is in no way directed at the OP, but I just find this a little funny, because this is the way that I've shot pretty much my entire career(remember, we didn't really have LOG until fairly recently). I still RARELY shoot LOG and prefer to shoot WYSIWYG for most things.

I did a shoot with my F55 about two months ago or so and we shot 4K SLOG3. I saw the final product on-air and it was nothing that could not have been accomplished in-camera, easily. To me, it looked pretty much like a standard REC709 look. It was a controlled shoot with a backdrop and completely controlled lighting. Nothing funky, no crazy contrast ratios to deal with, etc. I saw no real benefit to shooting SLOG, considering what I saw of the finished product. But they do have flexibility, in the future, to basically do what they want with the footage since it is 4K SLOG3.
 
I agree. S-LOG is a great tool when maximum dynamic range is needed or you want to keep as many options open as you can for post, but the for rest of the time baking in a WYSIWYG look makes a lot of sense. An often overlooked benefit of WYSIWYG is that you can also get away with a 8-bit and/or lower bit-rate codec, such as MPEG XDCAM HD422 because the grading is being done in-camera before compression. If you're not going to do major grading in post, there's very little visual difference between the XAVC codecs and MPEG. Being able to dial-in a nice final look in-camera is a huge benefit Sony cameras have over other cameras that just don't have the necessary horsepower to record anything but LOG or RAW.
 
1027Films said:
Hey guys,

I was wondering if there was anyway with the Sony FS7 to basically get the look you want in camera, and then just tweak the color in post a little. I know DPs like Ryan Booth (who is one of my favorites) does this, and I honestly feel like it's a really great way to make someone a better DP, since you have to get everything right on set.

However, with the FS7 I feel like you can't really do that like you could with something like a Canon camera. It seems that most everyone is just shooting LOG on the FS7 and if they are recording a "look" all they use is the 709-A LUT which is still a preset look (right?). The other thing I thought of was using the camera in custom mode, but that is advised against by pretty much everyone I spoken to due to the Sony 'video' look in that setting.

Hopefully there is a way, because I'd love to start practicing more this way. Anyway, thanks in advanced for the answers!
Click to expand...

Go to the Menu, go to settings, base settings, and under shooting mode choose custom.

Then go back to Paint menu, gamma, Gamma Category and choose STD

Then in the same menu under Gamma Select, choose STD5 R709.

This will be what you're normally used to shooting. I usually only do this when I am shooting long format meetings and want to do zero color correction in post. Anything creative or artistic that I want more control of I shoot in CineEI S-Gamut3.Cine/Slog3
 
Doug Jensen said:
WYSIWYG look makes a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

My experience of non log is
WYSINWYG - what you see is not what you get (unless you have a proper monitor on location)
WYSINWYW - what you see is not what you want.. but you know you can (or cant) pull it there in post
WYSINWYGBLT - what you see is what you get but looks terrible (unless you had a few HMIs to sort it)

For a laugh I tested STD gamma off the other day.. it was literally unusable, comic, odd that it would even be included in camera!

I would suggest the old schoolers maybe look back at their archive material, it might not be so great by todays standards.
 
There is actually no argument. WSYWIG is probably better because you will fill the 'data bucket more full'. But you must be in full control on set.

-you have a monitor that shows you what you are getting
-you can dial the camera as you want
-the scene is static and doesn't need exposure ramping mid shot
-you have the right light ratio through weather/sun timing or enough grip/lights/reflectors

The further you sit from those ideals the more likely you will need the 'crutch' of Slog and a twink in post.

Typically I have a too bad a monitor, and not enough lights to hit perfection.

IMO

S
 
Im here for an argument.. no your not.. :).. plenty of examples were Slog is the better way to shoot.. not that WYSIWYG is better just because of filling data buckets.. unless your only looking at each shot as an engineer..or every drama/ commercial would be shot WYSIWYG..if bucket filling was the be all and end all.. horses for courses.. if you have the money and time shoot slog and do the grade .. if not shoot WYSIWYG .. Shooting slog doesn't mean you cant get close to what you want when you shoot..
 
1027Films said:
Hey guys,

I was wondering if there was anyway with the Sony FS7 to basically get the look you want in camera, and then just tweak the color in post a little. I know DPs like Ryan Booth (who is one of my favorites) does this, and I honestly feel like it's a really great way to make someone a better DP, since you have to get everything right on set.

However, with the FS7 I feel like you can't really do that like you could with something like a Canon camera. It seems that most everyone is just shooting LOG on the FS7 and if they are recording a "look" all they use is the 709-A LUT which is still a preset look (right?). The other thing I thought of was using the camera in custom mode, but that is advised against by pretty much everyone I spoken to due to the Sony 'video' look in that setting.

Hopefully there is a way, because I'd love to start practicing more this way. Anyway, thanks in advanced for the answers!
Click to expand...


For what it's worth, on video projects that are not intended to look like film, where maybe 12 stops (?) of dynamic range are acceptable, I've been using the Custom mode, S-Log 2 gamma, and the F55 matrix setting. It's my way of getting something like the Canon Wide DR look on the FS7.
 
I personal avoid Custom. I just monitor / de-log with BerLUT in CineEI and get really cinematic images easily on par with my Red and Canon with very little effort.

Since you can apply ANY look you want in-camera with CineEI, the whole "Sony look" thing is so dead, perpetuated by haters. Most of the good cameras are pretty close, if you can't get a good look these days, it's the operator's fault.
 
when you monitor berLUT how do you expose for it?

Thanks

gene_can_sing said:
I personal avoid Custom. I just monitor / de-log with BerLUT in CineEI and get really cinematic images easily on par with my Red and Canon with very little effort.

Since you can apply ANY look you want in-camera with CineEI, the whole "Sony look" thing is so dead, perpetuated by haters. Most of the good cameras are pretty close, if you can't get a good look these days, it's the operator's fault.
Click to expand...
 
aalleexx said:
when you monitor berLUT how do you expose for it?

Thanks
Click to expand...

hi Alex, I just look at my waveform and it seems like BertLUT and FS7 is pretty standard. On my 7Q, seems like mid-grey is around 40-45 or so, so I just try and go by that and have been getting good results.

FS7 is very WYSIWYG. Often, I don't even need a waveform. With monitor LUTs, if it looks right, you're probably pretty good.
 
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