Shogun vs Odyssey 7q with MITCH GROSS

M

Matt Filmic

Member
Hi Mitch,

Ive owned the Odyssey since launch with my FS700, just wondering if you could share some benefits of using it with my A7S vs the Shogun, thanks
 
I'm not Mitch but I can tell you that the 7Q+ is a fully functional recorder to date as compared to the Shogun and the build is above and beyond better.

I've used both and the 7Q+ has worked flawless as opposed to several drop frame issues I've experienced with my Shogun with quality media. The SanDisk Extreme Pro.

I know the media is expensive. Three times more but if you get payed to shoot then you cant afford to have issues or loose a clip because of your gear. The Convergent Design SSD's are flawless server grade SSD's and have protection built in in case of power failure. I look at as insurance.

I shot 4K with my A7s and the 7Q+ for a upcoming promo I'm working on and I'm blown away by how great it looks. The 7Q+ performed perfectly too. One more thing that stands out for me is I love the tools and how you only have to press one time for them to appear on the screen. No sub menu's like the Shogun. One touch. Brilliant.

My review will be done this week and I'll post it.
 
Thanks Erik, all very useful info. I really look forward to your review

Erik Naso said:
I'm not Mitch but I can tell you that the 7Q+ is a fully functional recorder to date as compared to the Shogun and the build is above and beyond better.

I've used both and the 7Q+ has worked flawless as opposed to several drop frame issues I've experienced with my Shogun with quality media. The SanDisk Extreme Pro.

I know the media is expensive. Three times more but if you get payed to shoot then you cant afford to have issues or loose a clip because of your gear. The Convergent Design SSD's are flawless server grade SSD's and have protection built in in case of power failure. I look at as insurance.

I shot 4K with my A7s and the 7Q+ for a upcoming promo I'm working on and I'm blown away by how great it looks. The 7Q+ performed perfectly too. One more thing that stands out for me is I love the tools and how you only have to press one time for them to appear on the screen. No sub menu's like the Shogun. One touch. Brilliant.

My review will be done this week and I'll post it.
Click to expand...
 
I just compared monitor picture quality between the Small HD Pro7's and the Shogun and Odyssey. Preferred Odyssey overall. picture quality -didn't like the Shogun as much though its supposed to have the highest resolution.(is it OLED?). Small HD LCD was awful looking - green highlights. Small HD OLED looked great and and the 7Q looked very similar to the Small HD and my Flanders monitor. The small was a touch warmer and more contrasty . Hate the menu structure on the Small HD. Love it on the 7Q,
 
Erik Naso said:
I'm not Mitch but I can tell you that the 7Q+ is a fully functional recorder to date as compared to the Shogun and the build is above and beyond better.

I've used both and the 7Q+ has worked flawless as opposed to several drop frame issues I've experienced with my Shogun with quality media. The SanDisk Extreme Pro.

I know the media is expensive. Three times more but if you get payed to shoot then you cant afford to have issues or loose a clip because of your gear. The Convergent Design SSD's are flawless server grade SSD's and have protection built in in case of power failure. I look at as insurance.

I shot 4K with my A7s and the 7Q+ for a upcoming promo I'm working on and I'm blown away by how great it looks. The 7Q+ performed perfectly too. One more thing that stands out for me is I love the tools and how you only have to press one time for them to appear on the screen. No sub menu's like the Shogun. One touch. Brilliant.

My review will be done this week and I'll post it.
Click to expand...

May i know what battery you use for 7Q+ with a7s and how long can the battery last?
 
Alan Ting Judson said:
May i know what battery you use for 7Q+ with a7s and how long can the battery last?
Click to expand...

I ran a continuous recording test with one Sony NP-F570 2600mah Type battery. The one that comes with the Shogun.

With the Shogun I got 53 minutes and some change.

With the same battery on the 7Q+ I got one hour and twenty three minutes. That's significantly better power management. Approximately 30 minutes more continuous run time.

Another interesting and smart feature is the 7Q+ stopped recording when the voltage got to low. Then it shut down after about two minutes. No need to recover the clip because the recorder stopped it. With the Shogun it powered down while recording and when I replaced the battery and powered up I had to use the Shogun's software to save the clip, and it did work.

With the 7Q+ you have several battery options. Pick a plate that works for you. They range from $400 to $79 with third party options. The Sony NP-F type cost $79.

I like the bigger Sony type NP-F975. They are small and last a good long time and are fairly inexpensive at $60. They also work on some of my LED lights.
 
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I managed to buy a return/open box Shogun from B&H for $1,500, so I'm pretty happy, but if I was paying retail I'd absolutely go with the Odyssey.

The Shogun's build quality is piss poor, the battery is loose when attached (although doesn't not affect on/off if moved around), the on/off button jams frequently, and I've experienced drop frames (although it's been very rare). At $1500 though, I can't complain. With the free, dual 256GB SSD offer CD has right now, if you're paying retail, the 7Q+ is a no-brainer.
 
Erik Naso said:
I ran a continuous recording test with one Sony NP-F570 2600mah Type battery. The one that comes with the Shogun.

With the Shogun I got 53 minutes and some change.

With the same battery on the 7Q+ I got one hour and twenty three minutes. That's significantly better power management. Approximately 30 minutes more continuous run time.

Another interesting and smart feature is the 7Q+ stopped recording when the voltage got to low. Then it shut down after about two minutes. No need to recover the clip because the recorder stopped it. With the Shogun it powered down while recording and when I replaced the battery and powered up I had to use the Shogun's software to save the clip, and it did work.

With the 7Q+ you have several battery options. Pick a plate that works for you. They range from $400 to $79 with third party options. The Sony NP-F type cost $79.

I like the bigger Sony type NP-F975. They are small and last a good long time and are fairly inexpensive at $60. They also work on some of my LED lights.
Click to expand...


Thanks~ sound pretty good for the 7Q+

What you use to hold 7Q+ on your a7s/rig? still looking a best solution to hold it well with the weight of 7Q+ and NP-F970 battery
 
So just another Shogun flaw; loose batteries DO cause shutdowns if moved too much.

anyone else notice that their batteries are loose when connected? I may just have to send this thing back...

EDIT: Atomos' small, included battery is slightly more secure. My Sony NPF770's likely can't even be used due to shutdown risk.

Just did another test with Wasabi-brand NPF970; this one does not cause shutdown.
 
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When this thread popped up I decided to hold back for a few days to let others comment first. I see some interesting thoughts here and I'll try to add to them. I'm going to limit this to the use with the a7S since that is what the original poster asked. We have LOTS of other differences but this would become a very long post indeed.

Also, I consider it rude to comment directly on another manufacturer's product. I will extoll the unique virtues of the Odyssey7Q+ here. You can choose to look up what the other guy does in comparison on your own.


Monitoring
The Odyssey7Q+ features an OLED display. There is currently no more accurate a display technology for showing tue blacks, accurate colors and an extended color gamut. In fact the Odyssey7Q+ is capable of showing not only the REC709 color gamut but also the DCI-P3 color space. The next monitor up in the world that can do that is around $15,000.

Monitoring is not just an excellent image. The Odyssey7Q+ has a host of Image Analysis Tools, and they are all adjustable for the user's preferences or shot requirements. The waveform display can be full screen or in the corner, luma, R/G/B parade or individual color channels. So can the Histogram. Zebras are adjustable. The False Color exposure mode can be customized and features a reference legend on the bottom of the screen so that you know your settings at a glance. Pixel Zoom with finger drag is highly accurate and Focus Assist can be displayed in three different modes, in three programmable sensitivities and in three different colors (that's 3x3x3). For the a7S there is already an S-Log2 LUT available in the unit, with custom LUTs coming soon. The Frame Guides include three presets along with up to four custom guides. All four custom guides can be displayed at once if desired (with different colors available to help separate them), so along with one of the presets a user can choose to display as many as five frame guides in multiple colors.

Functionality and easy access are of huge importance to our design. All of the Image Analysis Tools are on the Lower Tool Bar and are accessible by a single finger tap. It's quick and easy to get in and out of any function and your hand need never block the screen. The Odyssey7Q+ also features an auto-sensing (but definable if you wish) Image-flip so the monitor can be rigged upside down with the connectors at the top if that is a preferred setup.


Recording
Both devices will record similar signals out of the a7S, but the Odyssey7Q+ has far greater versatility in recording RAW or video from many cameras, in 4K, UHD, 2K and HD. The Odyssey7Q+ is the most versatile monitor/recorder in the world.


Media
Convergent Design believes in reliable media, which is why we offer our own. Odyssey SSDs are the fastest, most reliable and affordable media available. Odyssey SSDs cost only $1.36-$1.55 per GB (US list) and are available in 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB sizes. They maintain performance from empty to full and over thousands of record cycles. Even if the battery dies during a shot, the Odyssey SSDs have built-in Power-Loss Protection to prevent file corruption. Every SSD is tested, certified, and warrantied for THREE YEAARS by Convergent Design to perform flawlessly on the Odyssey7Q+. The Odyssey SSDs do not drop frames and do not corrupt files. They are statistically the most reliable media in the industry, and are a fraction of the price of proprietary media for various camera and RAW recorder systems.

Convergent Design so believes in the necessity of reliable media that we are currently supplying every Odyssey7Q+ with two 256GB Odyssey SSDs. On the a&s shooting UHD at 24p, that is about 80 minutes of record time.

The Odyssey7Q+ has two SATA-interface SSD mounts. This allows hot-swapping of the SSDs and many hours of continuous recording. It also means that high data-rate formats (not applicable to the a7S but to other cameras, especially RAW signals) can be captured across the two SSDs. This is not possible with a single SATA-interface.

The Odyssey SSDs positively lock into the SSD slots with a locking tab. The release catch prevents the SSDs from accidentally becoming unseated and disconnecting, even when inverted and subjected to heavy vibrations such as in car rigs, handheld or in airborne platforms.


Routing
The Odyssey7Q+ can accept many forms of video and RAW signals in various resolutions, but we output all of them in 1920x1080 via both SDI and HDMI connections. This allows the Odyssey7Q+ to seamlessly integrate into standard production environments, where HD monitors, routers, wireless transmitters, switchers and other devices are in use. LUTs can be applied to the video outputs of the Odyssey7Q+, and many of the Image Analysis Tools can also be output.


Connectivity
The Odyssey7Q+ has multiple SDI inputs and outputs. While not directly effecting the use of the a7S, this allows connection of many cameras that would otherwise either require an additional processing box or may not be able to be connected at all. The Odyssey7Q+ also features timecode in/out for connecting an outside timecode source or outputting the timecode from the internal timecode generator.


Power
The Odyssey7Q+ can run on 6.5v-34v. The locking power port connection is over voltage and polarity protected. Convergent Design offers battery mounts for seven different battery types as well as three cable input types. All of our battery mounts are positive-locking, with release catches to prevent batteries from becoming accidentally unseated and disconnecting.

Highly efficient power management in the Odyssey7Q+ means that it consumes dramatically less power than other monitor/recorders. The Odyssey SSDs consume less than half the power of other 2.5" SSDs. Even in standby mode the Odyssey7Q+ consumes considerably less power than other systems. This extends battery life and also generates less heat in the unit.


Construction
The Odyssey7Q+ is housed in a cast magnesium casing. Magnesium is extremely strong with little weight. It is also a natural dissipater of heat and blocks RF interference. Multiple threaded mounting sockets use steel helicons inserted into the magnesium casing for superior strength and protection for the internal components from long mounting bolts. The Odyssey7Q+ and its magnesium case pass a professional-standard six foot drop test.

There are no vents or fans on the Odyssey7Q+, and the casing never gets more than slightly warm to the touch. No moving parts increases life expectancy, eliminates noise and protects from the elements. Small ridges on the back of the Odyssey7Q+ casing raise battery plates and other mounted devices clear of the surface of the case so that heat can naturally dissipate. Dust and moisture cannot get into the Odyssey7Q+, and no sound comes out of it.

Small raised edge bars on the magnesium casing help protect the Odyssey7Q+ OLED screen. The OLED panel is bonded to a sheet of hardened Gorilla Glass, and a peel-off / stick-on screen protector comes already installed on the Odyssey7Q+.
Three small mechanical buttons are recessed slightly in the Odyssey7Q+ magnesium casing, but can still be operated by a person’s fingertip and cannot get stuck on the casing.


Reliability and Support
Designed and manufactured in Colorado Springs, USA, the Odyssey7Q+ is built as a professional production machine, with industrial-grade design and construction. The performance and reliability is that of a tool for the experienced working professional, with a user interface that can be utilized by anyone. Major motion pictures, network episodic television, news services and many others trust in the ongoing performance and reliability of Convergent Design monitor/recorders.


Should a client ever have a question or issue, Convergent Design offers 24/7 support by phone or email. Should something happen to a client’s Odyssey7Q+ in the field, Convergent Design has a fleet of Rapid-Deployment Odyssey monitor/recorders throughout the world to help keep our clients shooting.



Expandability
The main processor of the Odyssey7Q+ is nearly double the power of that in any other monitor/recorder. It has the ability to be expanded upon well-beyond its current capabilities. In 2014 the Odyssey monitor/recorders enjoyed six firmware updates.
 
I'm almost sold...really.
One question though...why put mini HDMI ports?
 
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Today my spot aired so I can share it now.

https://vimeo.com/118082248

All the b-roll is A7s 4K recorded into the 7Q+ the anchors was shot with the C300 in C-Log. My experience using this combo was flawless and the producers liked seeing playback in the field on the 7Q+ monitor. Also having that much resolution in a HD project was nice. I was able to reframe a few shots without losing IQ.
 
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