Shia Lebeouf naked

I'm either a uncultured simpleton who's afraid of things that aren't clearly spelled out..................


or this is some quintessential artsy fartsy boo-boo
 
I love seeing the polarity among filmmakers with this kind of project. We reach so quickly for the "pretentious" label. Why is that? Maybe there's something more to it that we don't get, or don't want to get?
 
Snazzy Flapper said:
I love seeing the polarity among filmmakers with this kind of project. We reach so quickly for the "pretentious" label. Why is that? Maybe there's something more to it that we don't get, or don't want to get?
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That's very similar to what people say when you don't believe in their religion.

They have shown you the "truth" but you just don't want to see it.
 
Saharanturtle said:
pretentious, hypersexualized crap paraded as "open-mindedness" and "art". I'm a big fan of Sigur Ros and they lost some "cred" in my view after this video




Wow, what a good song. The story in the video is interesting but I'm not understanding the stairs at the end, are they trying to say that she's on her way to hitting rock bottom? Some commenters said the video is about loneliness but I don't think so, maybe if you were a monkey in Harry Harlow experiment you'd fall to that level of depression from loneliness. I think the video is more about alcoholism
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I don't care for the last part of the video either, the falling down the stairs. it just doesn't fit the rest of the piece.

BTW, the actor in this video actually got really drunk for this project.
 
Considering Sigur Rós is not the typical band making the typical music, I wouldn't expect a typical "music video" from them.
Do they, in their music, strive for something "artsy?" Perhaps, and perhaps this video does, too.

The nudity "barely" (ha ha) registers here- it's more about the modern dance movement and the symbolism of the butterflies (fragility of life/love, perhaps) and the contrast between the beauty and the violence.
And the "Forces?" Hard to say- nature, life forces, maybe something Icelandic?

But I definitely don't think something less clear in meaning, with symbolism = "pretentious". How clear is the meaning of life? Therefore life is pretentious?

Lastly, nobody's said "Shia in La Buff?" :happy:
 
Haven't bothered to watch the video, just wanted to ask what's wrong with pretention? Pretention is just high art that misses. Should people not take risks and strive to make art?
 
Egg Born Son said:
Haven't bothered to watch the video, just wanted to ask what's wrong with pretention? Pretention is just high art that misses. Should people not take risks and strive to make art?
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Sure you should take risks, but society shouldn't feel obligated to reign in any disappointment cause the artist missed the mark. Wouldn't feel like much of a risk if the possibility of scorn/dislike wasn't in the cards. I see pretention as being more about a lack of genuineness.
 
I don't think they should but the word 'pretentious' is often used with finality and to mean without value. I don't want to get at anyone here, I'm coming from a position of curiosity and I make summary judgements myself from time to time. There seems to be a lot less patience, occasionally vehemence with an artistic piece that comes across as glib rather than deep. As opposed to say, an action movie that fails to strike a balance between banter and mindless violence where people seem to be able to just check their brain at the door and enjoy it for what it is. I'm not saying that everyone should have to like such a movie. But many if not the majority of film goers would sooner chew their own arm off that watch Citizen Kane. Does this mean it has no value? I'm just genuinely curious as to why an insincere film that reaches tends to antagonise the viewer so much by comparison.

EDIT: Okay, so I watched and I see what people are talking about. I'm of two minds as it had some elegant bits and some awful bits. It had some bits that were beautiful and some bits that made me feel uncomfortable. I think it was worth watching but I can't say I liked it. Also it is the only time I've seen Shia Lebeouf act engagingly. There seems to be more to explore in here but it also seems to be very personal to the filmmaker. It was a narrative dance choreography which is an artform that has only ever moved me once. I might watch it again to steal a couple of edits. I'm still curious as to why such things are so polarising though. There doesn't seem to be many (myself included at times) who just shrug their shoulders. Might it be the personal (masturbatory?) nature of such a project?
 
Egg Born Son said:
I don't think they should but the word 'pretentious' is often used with finality and to mean without value. I don't want to get at anyone here, I'm coming from a position of curiosity and I make summary judgements myself from time to time. There seems to be a lot less patience, occasionally vehemence with an artistic piece that comes across as glib rather than deep. As opposed to say, an action movie that fails to strike a balance between banter and mindless violence where people seem to be able to just check their brain at the door and enjoy it for what it is. I'm not saying that everyone should have to like such a movie. But many if not the majority of film goers would sooner chew their own arm off that watch Citizen Kane. Does this mean it has no value? I'm just genuinely curious as to why an insincere film that reaches tends to antagonise the viewer so much by comparison.

EDIT: Okay, so I watched and I see what people are talking about. I'm of two minds as it had some elegant bits and some awful bits. It had some bits that were beautiful and some bits that made me feel uncomfortable. I think it was worth watching but I can't say I liked it. Also it is the only time I've seen Shia Lebeouf act engagingly. There seems to be more to explore in here but it also seems to be very personal to the filmmaker. It was a narrative dance choreography which is an artform that has only ever moved me once. I might watch it again to steal a couple of edits. I'm still curious as to why such things are so polarising though. There doesn't seem to be many (myself included at times) who just shrug their shoulders. Might it be the personal (masturbatory?) nature of such a project?
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I don't know the answer, but I would love to make something this polarizing. You get a lot of attention when people love it or hate it, not near as much when they just shrug their shoulders.
 
Egg Born Son said:
I don't think they should but the word 'pretentious' is often used with finality and to mean without value. I don't want to get at anyone here, I'm coming from a position of curiosity and I make summary judgements myself from time to time. There seems to be a lot less patience, occasionally vehemence with an artistic piece that comes across as glib rather than deep. As opposed to say, an action movie that fails to strike a balance between banter and mindless violence where people seem to be able to just check their brain at the door and enjoy it for what it is. I'm not saying that everyone should have to like such a movie. But many if not the majority of film goers would sooner chew their own arm off that watch Citizen Kane. Does this mean it has no value? I'm just genuinely curious as to why an insincere film that reaches tends to antagonise the viewer so much by comparison.

EDIT: Okay, so I watched and I see what people are talking about. I'm of two minds as it had some elegant bits and some awful bits. It had some bits that were beautiful and some bits that made me feel uncomfortable. I think it was worth watching but I can't say I liked it. Also it is the only time I've seen Shia Lebeouf act engagingly. There seems to be more to explore in here but it also seems to be very personal to the filmmaker. It was a narrative dance choreography which is an artform that has only ever moved me once. I might watch it again to steal a couple of edits. I'm still curious as to why such things are so polarising though. There doesn't seem to be many (myself included at times) who just shrug their shoulders. Might it be the personal (masturbatory?) nature of such a project?
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First of all, i've never heard anyone call Citizen Kane pretentious. Boring, yes, but never pretentious. It's a movie that has a very specific point it's trying to make and is honestly not all that narratively complicated, nor does it try to make any grand statements.


As for why a piece like this causes so much polarization, I can only speak for myself. I get irritated at work like this because it's just so cliche and predictable that it makes me want to scream. It's almost like there's a formula. Get actors, get them to take their clothes off, do some interpretive dance, have them occasionally look into the camera and cry, and BAM- it's art!

There's no originality anywhere to be found, and the piece doesn't seem to actually SAY anything. It's merely playing at being important.

But the thing that's REALLY annoying, is that people fall for it. All the time. There are so many people that will watch a piece of work like this and instantly hail it for it's "genius" because either they want to seem cultured, or they haven't been exposed to good art. When you compare a piece of work like this to the masters like Tarkovsky, Bresson, Dreyer, Fellini, Welles, etc., it becomes laughable how contrived and hollow this video really is.
 
I wasn't calling Citizen Kane pretentious. Merely highlighting that the commonly cited greatest movie of all time doesn't do it for everyone. I find it strange that it could bother you that other people might enjoy it (I use the general you, I do it too - particularly in regard to reality tv). The filmmaker is communicating something, it either speaks to you or it doesn't. Does it matter if others find something in it? Does it need to be compared to the masters to be valid?

With those questions I'm going to leave it there. I'm starting to feel like I'm trolling because I actually did find it a little pretentious myself. I was at a loose end this morning and in a funny mood and was questioning my own attitude as much as anyone else's. The mood has frankly passed so to further back my own argument at this point is merely playing devil's advocate.
 
Egg Born Son said:
I wasn't calling Citizen Kane pretentious. Merely highlighting that the commonly cited greatest movie of all time doesn't do it for everyone. I find it strange that it could bother you that other people might enjoy it (I use the general you, I do it too - particularly in regard to reality tv). The filmmaker is communicating something, it either speaks to you or it doesn't. Does it matter if others find something in it? Does it need to be compared to the masters to be valid?

With those questions I'm going to leave it there. I'm starting to feel like I'm trolling because I actually did find it a little pretentious myself. I was at a loose end this morning and in a funny mood and was questioning my own attitude as much as anyone else's. The mood has frankly passed so to further back my own argument at this point is merely playing devil's advocate.
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I think it's just a bit to much when all piled together. Any ONE element, and you might be fine, but combine them all and it just comes off as trying to hard rather than an organic artistic expression.

The music is already niche, not rock, alternative, country, or any mainstream genre.

Then you throw on a celebrity. Necessary for a niche music video? Not really, something we're more likely expect in a Eminem video or something, but ok.

Then, on top of that you throw in nudity.

And for the cherry on top, you throw in classic dance.

And for the cherry on top of the cherry, let's ad some symbolic butterflies, crying, and body painting.

It's like a candy bar, with chocolate syrup poured on it, covered in whipped cream, topped with sprinkles. Any one of those is sweet enough, but altogether it's kinda disgusting.







[h=2]pre·ten·tious[/h] adj \pri-ˈten(t)-shəs\




[h=2]Definition of PRETENTIOUS[/h]1
: characterized by pretension: as a : making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) <the pretentious fraud who assumes a love of culture that is alien to him — Richard Watts> b : expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature <pretentious language> <pretentious houses>

2
: making demands on one's skill, ability, or means : ambitious <the pretentious daring of the Green Mountain Boys in crossing the lake — American Guide Series: Vermont>

— pre·ten·tious·ly adverb
— pre·ten·tious·ness noun

See pretentious defined for English-language learners »

See pretentious defined for kids »

[h=2]Examples of PRETENTIOUS[/h]
  • The houses in the neighborhood are large and pretentious.
  • <that pretentious couple always serves caviar at their parties, even though they themselves dislike it>
  • It is hard to be pretentious or elevated in Yiddish, and easy to poke fun. —Cynthia Ozick, New Yorker, 28 Mar. 1988
  • [+]more

[h=2]Origin of PRETENTIOUS[/h]French prétentieux, from prétention pretension, from Medieval Latin pretention-, pretentio, from Latin praetendereFirst Known Use: 1832
 
I've never heard of any of the people involved in this video, so watched it without any idea of what to expect. I didn't like the bit where he cut the girl with a broken piece of glass. But other than that, I thought it was well made and enjoyed watching it, even though at times I thought they were in danger of disappearing up...And Citizen Kane? I love that film. Some people obviously don't. But I don't normally feel moved to comment on something like this, so I'm with Gillvane: "I don't know the answer, but I would love to make something this polarizing. You get a lot of attention when people love it or hate it, not near as much when they just shrug their shoulders." Me too.
 
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