Mark Williams
Veteran
I have a GH4 and am renting a GH5 next week. I usually shoot standard or vivid profile. What sharpness setting on the GH5 will equate to "0" on the GH4?
GH5 Sharpness Setting
- Thread starter Mark Williams
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improser
Active member
Im really disappointed about the minimum sharpening settings. Using analogo lenses I have horrendous haloing in areas of the image when exists hight contrast subjects. Im really thinking in sell the body and return to the GH4 because of this... in the GH4 the image is better looking, more organic, and support best the scaling and visualization in big sizes (cinema)... think that halos being at bigger sizes. Other bad scenario is when you grade the image down in exposure/gamma, the halo become more noticeable.
This is a 100% crop.
Cinelike-D, straight from camera. Canon FD 50mm 1.4 SSC with Metabones Ultra 0.71x at f/4
This not happen with the GH4.
FULL RES FILES
This is a 100% crop.
Cinelike-D, straight from camera. Canon FD 50mm 1.4 SSC with Metabones Ultra 0.71x at f/4
This not happen with the GH4.
FULL RES FILES
Mark Williams
Veteran
Thanks for your comments about the GH5 but what about comparable sharpness setting.
I think the GH5 is much more organic and a tiny bit softer than the GH4. I have always shot both at all zero's. If you are getting halo's you might have i.res and i.dyn turned on. Another thing to try is to use ETC in these sorts of situations, as it a 1 for 1 pixel readout from the sensor vs. the full 2x crop taking the full 5k sensor and packing it into 4k output.
Mark, I think you'll really like the new color science of the GH5 on top of all the other features it gives you. Having a 2x crop vs 2.49x on the GH4. Now ETC effectively gives two lenses in one for each prime at 2x or 2.7x crop. The GH4 doesn't have ETC in 4K mode as it's ETC'd already just to do 4K. 120 and 180 fps slow motion are incredible, plus the new quality at these frame rates is much higher than on the GH4. One of the biggest things is the 20mpix still are head and shoulders above the GH4. I still can't edit 10bit on Vegas, so I can't even show how much that can help sometimes.
If you can sell your GH4 for $800, it's not too horrible a step and I found it well worth it
Cheers,
Pete
Mark, I think you'll really like the new color science of the GH5 on top of all the other features it gives you. Having a 2x crop vs 2.49x on the GH4. Now ETC effectively gives two lenses in one for each prime at 2x or 2.7x crop. The GH4 doesn't have ETC in 4K mode as it's ETC'd already just to do 4K. 120 and 180 fps slow motion are incredible, plus the new quality at these frame rates is much higher than on the GH4. One of the biggest things is the 20mpix still are head and shoulders above the GH4. I still can't edit 10bit on Vegas, so I can't even show how much that can help sometimes.
If you can sell your GH4 for $800, it's not too horrible a step and I found it well worth it
Cheers,
Pete
Mark Williams
Veteran
Thanks Pete. My plan is to tryout the GH5 and if it is good then sell my GH4. Really interested in shooting 4K 60fps. I am editing with Edius 8.5 workgroup so 10bit is no problem.
Mark Williams
Veteran
Yes, thank you.
improser
Active member
Is really a step backward in term of sharpening. I have all disabled and double check settings, even try other picture profiles for a difference but is not.
If you compare or even test with the camera yourself then you see it.
In the example I post, when you dark the sky, the halo is brighter and become very noticeable because you are dimming the tones, really disgusting.
I don't get any of that with my GH5. In ETC mode my GH5 is exactly the same as my GH4 I owned before it. In 2x crop the GH5 is a tiny bit softer than the GH4 in it's 2.49x crop in 4K recording, but it's almost imperceptible.
I'll suggest you try some native primes and see if it's not your metabones/lens setup causing the issue. Also make sure you are on firmware 1.1 as there was an issue with halo's and firmware 1.0 in vlog. Not sure if that might be an issue in cined as well.
You mean the 4k ETC mode of your GH5 is sharper than the original 4k 2x crop ? If yes, i think there is a lot of sample variation with the GH5. Mine is sharper with the original 4k 2x crop.
I agree, I have to use strong diffusion in front of the lens and blur filters in post to get it "under control".
Even at sharpening -5, it's a joke...
+1
With my GH4 I almost always shot with Sharpness at -5 using native glass because anything higher would start to look too sharp. With this setting ( and NR at -5 ) I never saw haloing.
So far my GH5 seems to be a tamer version of my GH4, where I don't have to take Sharpness all the way down to -5, and GH5 temporal NR seems to work significantly better than GH4 NR does.
Looking at Improser's full res image makes me think it's his FD lens that might be a part of the problem. ( would like to see a side-by-side GH4 vs GH5 comparison with both cameras using the SAME lens )
The GH5 image in ETC is definitely sharper than the regular 4K crop using my 42.5mm Panasonic lens and my 50mm f/1.4 OM zuiko on a dummy metabones .71x speedbooster.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
So what is exactly the problem you have?
There is no 'horrendous haloing' in the original, there is a one pixel contrast enhancement, which after debayering is nothing out of the ordinary.
The rest is caused by chromatic aberration of the lens.
Not sure what you mean by analog(o) lenses, all lenses are analog.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
I am not sure your comments are actually meant cynically but I hope they are.I agree, I have to use strong diffusion in front of the lens and blur filters in post to get it "under control".
Even at sharpening -5, it's a joke...
Sadly not. Still figuring out how to match with a Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro and DJi Inspire 2 X5s (ProRes D-log) for a shoot, since these cameras don't do any visible processing and look way more organic thanks to that. No edge sharpening and unsharp mask halos at all.
Right now I'm using blur in Davinci Resolve and change the opacity of the according node to decrease the halos trying not to destroy fine detail. Really hard tbh.
Never saw a debayering algorithm introducing edge sharpening artifacts, basically tried all of them (DCraw, Adobe Camera RAW, DXO, BlackMagic, REDcode etc...) The sharpening is applied after debayering and before scaling (The 6k photo footage has slightly bigger halos but looks similar once downscaled to 4k).
Really wish Panasonic would give us an option to disable it, matching would be way easier and footage would generally look way more cinematic and have better motion cadence (less strobing).
Noise isn't a problem for me, looks quite organic actually at -5/-5 honestly.
Right now I'm using blur in Davinci Resolve and change the opacity of the according node to decrease the halos trying not to destroy fine detail. Really hard tbh.
Never saw a debayering algorithm introducing edge sharpening artifacts, basically tried all of them (DCraw, Adobe Camera RAW, DXO, BlackMagic, REDcode etc...) The sharpening is applied after debayering and before scaling (The 6k photo footage has slightly bigger halos but looks similar once downscaled to 4k).
Really wish Panasonic would give us an option to disable it, matching would be way easier and footage would generally look way more cinematic and have better motion cadence (less strobing).
Noise isn't a problem for me, looks quite organic actually at -5/-5 honestly.
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Very interesting, my GH5 is clearly sharper on the regular 4k 2x crop.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
That does not make any sense to me whatsoever, but to each his own!
Already using non Panasonic lenses (no digital corrections) here and diffusion filters.
But the full res sample you posted looks like it's contaminated with chromatic-aberration from your Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 lens, which is causing the color bleed on fine black&white image detail.