SGS Spec trailer for DVX based Martial Art Actioner

Nathyn

Nathyn

Low Budget Ninja
Hey guys, this is an exclusive for DVXuser.com. This is our spec trailer. The reviews seem to be admirable, but it's mostly excitement but I wanted to see what you thought. We're going for hardcore indie martial arts action, no wires or special effects. It's not Tony Jaa but it's pretty good. It doesn't have the studio polish to it but I think it does prove the people who don't believe we can do what we say we can are dead wrong. At least that's what I hope. Click here to see it. This isn't ready to be released to the public but it's just for you guys right now.

-Nate
 
I think it could still use some work. Different music, something with more of a theme and more heart vs. the current loop music.

With the opening shots, I was a little disoriented with direction, who's who, etc. ... some of the problem may have been the back lighting, so we can't see who the actors are (i.e. when the two run into our hero/vicitim's path).

When the two guys were battling it out with their weapons (the hero and one of the henchmen), it didn't look up close & personal ... didn't look like there was anything at stake like someone could get their face smashed, throat caved in, etc. ... they were too far apart & looked like they were playing a game of Patty Cake with their weapons.

Otherwise, some very talented martial artists for sure ... just my two cents & thanks for sharing.
 
What do you think would've improved the fights? I think the darkness is a monitor issue. On television it shows great. You may have to calibrate your monitor for this. But is it dark on everyone's monitor?

-Nate
 
I'd suggest looking at some of the cuts on the beginning to avoid any confusion between who's who ... see if you're crossing the line (camera angles), etc. As far as improving the weapon battle shot, move the actors in closer & get some up close & gritty angles. I always enjoy seeing elbows & knees in the fight more than fists from a distance as it looks more personal & in your face. That said, a killer round house is always fun as well. Either way, make it look like they've got something at stake in that weapon fight sequence.

As far as darkness of monitors, you want to edit to the most common denominator. Who's your audience? If it's only professionals that actually know & care about calibrating monitors, etc. then you're fine. If it's the average consumer or anyone else that may be watching this on the web with a CTR monitor, then you want to edit to that level. Same thing with TV's ... make sure it looks great on a piece of crap, so it'll only look better on hight quality TV's.
 
Are you shooting with a DVX? I thought it looked okay... maybe a little dark, but I'm sure it's a monitor issue. Anything I put on the web I pump up in the NLE to a bright and grainy look... and it seems to be just bright enough when viewed on the web.

I agree the music could be better... and I'm going to try to develop something really practical for handheld shooting, but until I do you should check out the stratos camera bracket: CLICK HERE or even the mini rover: CLICK HERE

Either one of those will allow you to shoot handheld with surprising stability... not that your shots were bad, but there's a style of handheld that I've been trying to master for a while now... Have you ever seen Arrested Development? If not that then how about 24? Either of these are shot with a steadycam/handheld style... with burst zooms and loose framing, but in a manner that doesn't make you sea-sick. I think you could really pump up the action feel of your stuff if you check out the style I'm talking about... it's a way of showing everything you want to and using a zoom or some other camera move to quickly move over things that aren't important. I can't really describe it better then that... all I know is it gives a "you are there" sensation... and the motion adds to the tension... but it's gotta' be done right to work. A camera bracket is the first step in the right direction.

So hopefully you take that as constructive criticism plus a compliment. You're stuff looks good, but the action would be more intense if you incorporate more of the now you see it now you don't style of shooting. It will give it a feel of chaos almost like the cameraman can't keep up with real intense action... but he never actually misses anything important. If the shots are too cautiously framed and carefully setup... and it LOOKS like they were... then the audience never gets a sense of a dangerous situation.

It's just like the dutch-angle for old horror movies... a person walks down a hall in front of a level camera and eh? a little scary... now tilt that cam so it's all skewed and the person seems to be walking with their body at an angle off verticle... it tells you something isn't right.

The steadycam/handheld approach is how you make action more intense when you don't have the budget to do what Hollywood can.
 
I've put another version up and played around in the editing a little. I think this will be more tighter as far as whose who. Couldn't really do anything to lighten it up but it's basically going to be delivered on DVD along with some other stuff I shot so most people will see it on television. I'm actually a fan of the dutch angle and I do try to get the cool angles. For the trailer's I had to grab the stuff that made the most sense and looked the coolest but there were some of those in the actual fight, which I'm editing now. (I have to get some good sound f/x for it though).

As for as the fighting we didn't want to get too close (those were real swords) but I cut it were it looked better. In the actually fight the camera goes around us from medium-longshot to medium shot to close up so we hope to get all that feeling of danger. Here's the new cut: http://www.the4thbeast.com/samurai/art/sgsweb4.mov

-Nate
 
Were you going for more of the hong kong/asian style fights over a more traditional American (XXX, James Bond, Gladiator) one? Your actors seem to be very skilled in martial arts, but conveying it on the screen is a completely different skill that depends on the action director, or choreographer+director, however you have that arranged. I'm not sensing much intensity from the actors for most of the shots, and I think that's the most important thing-to sell the intention, otherwise it will take the audience out of the fight no matter how good the choreography or tricking skill is.

For things like weapons, one possible technique that I like to try and use (though I'm not going to claim that my fights actually turn out as well as yours) is, if you're not comfortable with going fast or can't do a certain kick fast enough, just zoom in and pan with the action a little bit so the objects move across the screen faster. Add a little camera motion, and this can help cover up intensity or slowness rather effectively. Otherwise, if you're going to use wide shots, you really need the intensity.

Just my humble, half asleep attempt at constructive critcism.

Respectfully,
Michael Johnson
 
InvictusX said:
Were you going for more of the hong kong/asian style fights over a more traditional American (XXX, James Bond, Gladiator) one?
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Both actually but more leaning toward HK.

-Nate
 
Debo said:
Reminds me of Action Jackson
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haha that's what i was thinking.

about the clip i'm not impressed with the filming element, but the fighters had some cool moves
 
When the two guys are facing each other spinning the spike/swords (don't know the name of those) they look too in control... that's a shot which requires the zoom and pan or some other chaos injected to it.

I've been playing with this a lot lately: try switching your zoom over from servo to manual and use one finger to "flick" the zoom... if you practice you can burst zoom really good and the effect is well, effective.

Also how did you do the music? Is that Acid? You need a pulse in the fight sequence and a defining moment of "what's about to happen" in the soundtrack... guy runs = standard energy sound... people confront him = what's about to happen... fight sequence begins = high energy pulse.

Do you know what I mean? I'll post an example if you want me to... I just don't usually go to that trouble unless the person I'm posting to is interested or receptive to that kind of input.

I can tell you're going for a street thing with the sound, but I'd bail on that and go high energy.
 
wesley said:
haha that's what i was thinking.

about the clip i'm not impressed with the filming element, but the fighters had some cool moves
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Yea those guys were awesome. I actually split my pants during that final shot. I had to go buy a sewing kit and do a quickie stitch up job.
MattinSTL said:
I've been playing with this a lot lately: try switching your zoom over from servo to manual and use one finger to "flick" the zoom... if you practice you can burst zoom really good and the effect is well, effective.
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Is the action still able to be followed this way?
MattinSTL said:
Also how did you do the music? Is that Acid?
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Actually I know a rapper here in the city. He's using Protools and a lot of music base hardware and stuff. We're going for the urban and Asian market, but we do have people overseas looking at the film because of the celebs that are in it.
Debo said:
Reminds me of Action Jackson
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What ever happened to Carl Weathers? I'd love to remake/update that. Action Jackson's a classic. **

-Nate
 
I'm having a hard time seeing this as a trailer because all I know is that there's going to be fighting (good fighting), but there's nothing more... at least give me a hint about the story. And if this is just one fight sequence your showing, it's really hard to establish where everybody is... for what it's worth, I would first show the main guy running out and running into the first two guys, then have him maybe back up a couple of steps to reveal the other two henchman behind him... having everyone in the same frame at this point, before you get a CU of the main guy scanning... then you can break it up into individual encounters... A change of music will definetly help overall.

just an opinion

SmithHouse
 
2 questions: What celebs? and have you seen the other action thread?

Since somebody mentioned AD after I did I'll say it again... that style of shooting is great if you learn how to do it right. The action can be followed perfectly once you get how to do it... and the scene will be more interesting.

Watch any soap opera then watch AD... you'll see what I mean right away.

The only reason I mentioned the music is 'cause it's a repeating loop like Acid... and there are some incredible choices in that area... which would build excitement.
 
Smithhouse said:
I'm having a hard time seeing this as a trailer because all I know is that there's going to be fighting (good fighting), but there's nothing more...
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That's all the spec trailer is supposed to showcase is the fighting. The people will know the story already and know the "names" are involved so what they'll want to know is can our people deliver. My focus is to show that we can do action better than many of the American "B-films".
Smithhouse said:
at least give me a hint about the story. And if this is just one fight sequence your showing, it's really hard to establish where everybody is...
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It's actually clips from various scenes in the film.
Smithhouse said:
for what it's worth, I would first show the main guy running out and running into the first two guys,
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By the way you know that's me right? :)
MattinSTL said:
2 questions: What celebs? and have you seen the other action thread?
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We've got Joe Estevez, Julia Ling and Laurene Landon signed on so far. I have seen a little bit of the other action threads. Some good stuff there.

-Nate
 
BTW Good stuff in the other action film link. I'm thinking about shooting the actual film in HDV or on the HVX.

-Nate
 
I knew it was you bro. Keep up the good work... I'm two weeks from finishing my first action/comedy flick... and I haven't even learned how to post grabs and clips. doh!

SmithHouse
 
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