SGBlade on Viper 2/3 camera in CinemaScope and full frame 35

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

That's the first time ever an ISO res chart is being published with a 2/3 relay lens in a public forum like this...

Probably I'm very brave...

So yes, thats SGblade attached to a Viper with the help of my GG.relay Rev3 in a full frame 35 frame size (35mm x 14,9mm)

In CinemaScope 2,35:1 mode...

The lens used is the Zeiss ZF 50mm F2 macro. It does have a slight vignette... but is the best performing lens I have ever used...
With the 50mm F1.4 ZF there is no vignette at all. The slight green cast on top was because I mixed fluorescent warms and tungsten lights...
it needed a -1/2 green, sorry...

For the super 35 frame size with the 50mm lens (when GG.relay is set up for S35), I have to put the camera in 1.65 meters to have the chart in full frame.
With this setup (FF35) the camera is in 1.16meters so its almost full frame... the almost is because I don't want to reach the limits of the ground glasses in the various adapters.
In S35 setup (the same frame size that Letus relays and Pro35 has) the relay is shorter by 6cm... so its long because of FF35 frame size...

One obvious observation is that the frames that I have post are 4K... someone will ask how this is being done... Viper is a 1080 camera...!!

The answer is NO... the Viper has a 27.8Mpixels sensor (yes 2.5 times RED's) and in anamorphic CinemaScope mode it reaches 1400 lines resolution...

Yes... thats the resolution of RED... and yes Viper has the same resolution as RED in the CinemaScope mode...

I used this mode (high resolution CinemaScope mode) in order to show that my relay and SGblade will be easily used with Scarlet in the future...
take in account that GG.relay is a modular relay that can exchange camera mounts...

We have the first relay/adapter combo that is future proof towards to scarlet 2/3!!!!

You can right click and download them locally to play with them and scale them to 1080 or 720 to compare with others...
If you need the uncompressed tiff's just ask them and I will upload them...

So guys, enjoy...

Front lens at F2-8,5 and relay at F4,5

Front lens at F4 and relay at F4

Front lens at F4,5 and relay at F2-8,5

Front lens at F5-6 and relay at F2-8



And the photos of the rig...

 

[astigmatic]

looks great. man i'm drooling over those horizontal lines. Any screen grabs of the bare viper? To better gauge how the setup affects the picture quality?


Wait a minute.. is this rotor razor 2 or 1? I see the concentric lines of the spinning gg.
thanks!

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Actually the SGblade/GG.relay/Zeiss has more resolution than Canon Cinestyle 11x4.7 KLL-SC... the 1200 lines is the design limit for Canon...

Download both and compare the horizontal lines...

About the rotorazor I really don't know what Wayne send me... we have to ask him...

And the Canon 2/3 lens...

 

[astigmatic]

well the difference is clear, but i must say the relay did reduce the amount of degradation I'm used to seeing an adapter cause. If the new optics for the sgblade improves the edge to edge i'm seeing then the blade+scarlet does seem like a good option. However, I hope that's not the original rotorazor, because the resolution is really exposing the spinning grain. I'm curious to see how your fiber screen holds up.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

I didn't adjust the spinning speed... so its at what it was set by Wayne... I probably have to increase the spinning... As of FiberScreen I'm waiting the next part...

These are some scaled 1080 images for better viewing

 

[Wayne Kinney]

Good work, Evangelos!

The relay certainly resolves a lot of res

That is ROTOrazor 2 installed in your unit which has an F4 - F5.6 limit anyway, and I can see from the pics that the speed is set to slow.

Also, the Blade is our 'loaner' unit and has been all around the world, the RR may have some dust on it which will also show as concentric circles. Running a lens pen brush lightly over the surface of the disk while it is spinning will clean it up.

This looks very promising, Evangelos. Can't wait to see some footage!

 

[Everts]

sigh ....

 

[Oedipax]

Haha, SG Blade on a Viper, I love it. Thanks for posting this. I'd really like to get one of the S35 or FF35 Scarlets, but if money's tight this looks like it could be a viable option for the 2/3"...

Can the relay setup be used on an SGpro rev3? Not being able to speed up the GG might be an issue.

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Can the relay setup be used on an SGpro rev3? Not being able to speed up the GG might be an issue.

I don't thing that there is any reason why not... especially in the FF35 setup...

I done the tests with Viper and not with a HPX500 just to show the system capabilities... I suppose it is understood that it will work on anything has a 2/3 mount... ahh... I forgot or a 1/3 mount... the relay is a multiformat, frame wise as well as camera mount's...

With the S35 setup SGblade/GG.relay will be in the same league (as far as quality and size matters) as the Ultimate/compact but in 1/3 the price...

 

[killamill]

Congratulations Evangelos, finally someone is posting charts of a product. This is definitely a big plus to u...

Looks very promising...

 

[Dennis Wood]

I can see we'll need to source up a Viper body for testing on Cinevate's multi-format relay. The camera looks very clean. We do see Scarlet 2/3" as our primary host camera and this is what our relay was spec'd too in initial design. Should be interesting as Canon closes in with the 5D MKII next-gen CMOS censor!

I see that we'll also need to post a few charts

Cheers,
Dennis.

 

[Studio595]

Hey dennis, Any news yet on that price reduction? Im eagerly waiting lol

 

[Dennis Wood]

hijack on....tomorrow you'll set it posted...hijack off....
​

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Congratulations Evangelos, finally someone is posting charts of a product. This is definitely a big plus to u...

Looks very promising...

Thanks... I do have some charts from other products, (not Dennis) and I know why they are not published... So lets say that, as they were doing in the old days, "I threw the glove" (made the challenge)...

I see that Dennis will follow... I thing SIM Video in Canada has a Viper Dennis... otherwise is a collective item... very rare since Sony made an aggressive offer with an exchange of a full featured F23... so most of Vipers are destroyed for tax reduction...

The relay is usable even in wide open, the sweet spot seems to be 2.8,5 with maximum performance in F4, in S35 mode the relay is 5cm long so the SGblade will be exactly the same size as Pro35 is... that means, it will be shorter by 7cm of what it is in the photos, because the extension tubes are not needed. And all that will be sold including SGblade with PLmount in the 3Keuro's range...

 

[scenedirector]

I should be getting my SGBlade in about 2 weeks. I have a Canon XH-A1 at the moment, but plan on getting a 2/3" Scarlet.
I'm going back and forth over the fixed lens set up, or just the brain. My dream would be to get just the brain with my SGBlade, and a VERY FAST relay lens.
Will the Cinevate relay work with my Blade?? And not just work, but work well? Am I looking at a lot of light loss?

The only 2 relays I see coming to market are from Letus (which I feel is too expensive, and will only cover S35 and not FF35 f.o.v.) and the Cinevate, which I'm eyeballng hardcore.

There is definitely going to be a market for 2/3" with adapters.
Wayne from Shoot35 has specifically stated that he will NOT develop a relay lens. I love his adapter (that's why I'm getting it), so I'm trying to see where I can take my business for an AMAZING relay lens.

Who's going to get my business??

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

my SGBlade, and a VERY FAST relay lens. Am I looking at a lot of light loss?

The relay that is shown here is the first relay introduced back at March 2008... this is the third revision of its design... so on the market are three relays... The MotionFX, Letus and Cinevate.

Our relay is the only, that has publicly available charts with aperture starting at 2.8 and verified 3K capable resolution. From what I know until now all the relays will have a sweet spot at above F2.8,5 - F4 except Letus PRO that its workable at above 2.8, that means its a 1/2 faster than ours... and on S35 is 6cm longer...

I don't know Cinevate's relay how they perform, the only thing I have seen in a Video is that the markings are starting at 2.8. An answer from Dennis will enlighten us on that subject.

You can now estimate your light losses.

As far as I can understand all of them will have similar performance +-1/2 stop...

All the options are down to which is shorter, lower cost, more flexible to a variety of cameras/mounts, adapter compatibility, multiply of frame sizes and resolution above 2K...

 

[scenedirector]

What relay lens is yours? Do you have a website I can look at and get educated on this THIRD relay lens?

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

What relay lens is yours? Do you have a website I can look at and get educated on this THIRD relay lens?

If you go to the top page of this thread you will see it...

My web site is being updated... all info in my web site is referring to Rev2. the difference between Rev2 and Rev3 is just mechanical new design. Optics are the same. Price is different a bit higher, S35 @ 1750 euro's and FF35 @ 1900 euro's, an upgrade kit to convert them for S35 or FF35 will be at 500 euro's and 650 euro's respectively. All, ready to mount on SGblade. Extension tubes plus connection part for straight configuration will be at 400 euro's for blade.

www.motionfx.gr

 

[Lenilenapi]

Evangelos,

I want to salute you for posting genuinely informative resolution charts from which a person can judge corner to corner sharpness and CA at all apertures even ones that show weaker performance at the most open apertures. I would love to see performance at f2 be as crystal clear as f5.6, but fantasies are often just that and my guess is there are simply optical sissues that are hard to get around. I'd rather know the truth upfront than discover it later after making purchases.
Bravo.

I'm very excited at the progress you've made and of course the price points are exciting as well.

Lenny Levy

 

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Thanks Lenny for your kind words... At least you know what I'm talking about...

Today I did a light loss test and I notice that the flip configuration against the non flip, as far as light loss concerns, the flipped configuration is brighter by 1/2 to 1/3 of a stop...! which is surprising to me... Blade is surprising me every day....

I wondering what is the performance of Rotorazor 3... if its brighter then, we will have (with relay at 2.8,5), just 1 stop or less drop from my Cinestyle Canon lens...!!!

And yes the spin speed was in the lowest...