F35: Sgamut or 709

macgregor

macgregor

Veteran
Today I spent half a day doing tests with the F35. My brain is going to explode, but this is what's going through my head at the moment. For most of us, shooting in custom mode Slog/F900 might be a better idea than using cine ei which defaults to slog / sgamut. Sgamut sounds great in theory as it's capable of mapping more colors but in the real world, where we don't have access to expensive post houses with a good color pipeline, we are getting dull color results because we are not converting from Sgamut to 709 properly (at least no one I know does this). A saturation boost does not fix this as you may know. I've been playing with an Xrite color checker and I feel that with the f900 color space (need to try other options too like F900R) the results are better.

More test coming up!
 
OK so lets start with Sgamut vs F900 color space.
Here are two shots, same exposure, prores444 on the odyssey, 1st is Sgamut, 2nd is F900:

gamut_1.1.1.jpg



gamut_2.2.1.jpg


Not a crazy difference but noticeable if you look at the color checker.
 
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With that in mind I was able to replicate an S-gamut to 709 node in Davinci plus I've worked a bit to delete any color casts on a grayscale, which should yield better color accuracy. Have in mind that this is WIP, and my eyes are not necessarily well calibrated.

And when I apply the new node to old footage, suddenly it's coming to life! The typical flat brownish tone of Slog turns into actually pretty natural colors.
We had a similar discussion a few months ago about the same subject and adobergb blablablaa so I'm happy to finally have the time to play with this. I think this is going to be specially interesting in projects that haven't graded yet. Easy to apply these new settings to Sgamut projects. But proabbly from now on I'll be shooting in F900 color space (disclaimer, more tests are needed for this).


color_2.7.1.jpg


color_2.7.2.jpg


color_2.8.1.jpg


color_2.8.2.jpg


Note, this screencaps are not in log.
 
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Thanks for this! I'm in the testing stages of the f65 and have been wondering similar things. The DP who owned the camera before me also was using F900...mostly episodic stuff to itu709.

Keep us posted on your findings!
 
This was pointed out to me on another forum. I used this process with ACES in resolve and got the best most neutral conversion to Rec709 that I have ever had with slog/sgamut from the F35. I think it is going to be my go to workflow and marks the first time I feel I have ever recovered a neutral image from any flavor of slog/sgamut. My testing has been very limited though so if you give it a go I would love to hear your thoughts. One potential negative though is luts designed for Rec709 do not work properly in ACES. Also be sure to apply the lut mention in the blog post on the media page and not the color page.

http://www.filmscientist.com/blog/2015/01/29/film-scientist-aces-workflow-revisited/
 
I think one reason the Genesis was so massively successful was the GDP (Genesis Display Processor) which was basically a box of tricks designed to go from Panalog to a nice film-print-look based on the stock of your choice (usually 5219).

I was very lucky and found a colourist here who knew how to deal with S-Gamut and S-Log, it is easily screwed up.

The F65 offers much better control in this department, not least when shooting in RAW you have a selection of nice LUTs to begin with. It helps that the F5/55/etc all have S-Log3 too, means so many more people out there will be grading at home etc...
 
What gamma are you using with f900 color space? I find hyper gammas to be very flat and noisier than the standard settings. It seems to me the trade off is noise vs dynamic range. Camcorder gamma has the nicest color and least noise to my eye while having the least dynamic range. I know it might be crazy but i find myself using camcorder gamma when i know the footage wont be professionally graded.
 
JMtheDP said:
I think one reason the Genesis was so massively successful was the GDP (Genesis Display Processor) which was basically a box of tricks designed to go from Panalog to a nice film-print-look based on the stock of your choice (usually 5219).

I was very lucky and found a colourist here who knew how to deal with S-Gamut and S-Log, it is easily screwed up.
Click to expand...

1. never heard ot that GDP, what is it?
2. what does your colorist do with Slog?
 
yachacha said:
What gamma are you using with f900 color space? I find hyper gammas to be very flat and noisier than the standard settings. It seems to me the trade off is noise vs dynamic range. Camcorder gamma has the nicest color and least noise to my eye while having the least dynamic range. I know it might be crazy but i find myself using camcorder gamma when i know the footage wont be professionally graded.
Click to expand...

Camcorder gamma????? what is that?
I´m using Slog with F900 color space for now, Slog is still the best option for me
 
The GDP was a little box of tricks that was basically a hardware LUT transform.

My colourist doesn't do anything special, he just knows how to work in S Log. He built his own IDT.
 
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