Setting up for 24p editing

Re: Setting up for 24p editing

As I set up my preferences to edit in 24p mode, what is the difference between DV NTSC - 48 khz - 23.98 and DV50 NTSC 48khz - 23.98? Which one do I select?
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

Ok...confused once again. I understand to select the Advance pulldown option in the Capture presets. But in the Sequence presets I have DV NTSC 48khz 23.98 and I have DV NTSC 48khz -24. The descriptions basically say the same thing that if you working with 24fps video to use either of the 2 options. So do I select the 23.98 in the Sequence presets?

Also in the Playback control in the system settings, do I need to change the pulldown pattern? Right now I have my playback as: RT=safe; Video=High; Pulldown=2:2:2:4
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

Technically it's 23.98 fps so that's what I use.

The other settings you list are for playback on your monitor only. When you do your final output you'll want to go to DVD as is or add 3:2 pulldown for standard video.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

Just so I am clear on this. I change my current settings to 23.98. I capture the footage, once all the clips are in the computer, I then remove the pull down from there I will be ready to edit? That's all right?
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

If you shoot 24pa and have FCP set to do advance pulldown removal 2:3:3:2 then you're done as soon as you capture. It's now 1 real frame = 1 edit frame.

If you didn't have the advance pulldown removal on when you captured you can select the clips in the bin and go to Tools > Remove Advance Pulldown. But this is only necessary if you didn't have it capturing correctly.

Audio/Video settings prefs for 24PA:
Sequence Preset: DV NTSC 48khz 23.98
Capture Preset: DV NTSC 48khz Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal
Device Control Preset: FireWire NTSC NDF

Sound:
If you have a DVX100 (not 100a) then you need to offset the sound by 2 frames.
To do thsi go to the Extras folder on your FCP disks and copy DVX-100 Audio Sync Tool to >Library>App Support>FCP support>Plugins folder and restart FCP.
Select the clips in the bin after capture, go to Tools >Offset Audio Sync (should be 2 already) and hit ok.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

Your the first person that said something about all that offsetting the audio. Are you sure I have to do all that? I do have the 100 and not the "A". The FCP discs you are referring to are the install discs right? Now to put it back the way I had it originally would I have to follow the same steps in reverse. Not everything I am going to shoot will be 24PA thats why I asked.

Thanks for your help so far.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

yes, the DVX100 (not 100a) records audio 2 frames out of sync.
See http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/ and look under audio sync.
Eveyone using a DVX should read the full page.
Also do a search for 'pulldown' in the FCP help file. This will help clarify a number of issues.

Best thing to do:
Shot a test using 24pa of a clapper slate or someone clapping their hands or something where you can see true sync. Also shoot something in motion - person moving their arms or something.
Bring these in to FCP using the settings above.
Step through frame by frame. You'll notice the clap sound will happen before the image action. This is why the sync needs to be offset. You may not notice thisso much with normal dialogue.

If your setup is correct you should be able to step through frame by frame and not see any interlacing.

If you're going backout to firewire to save your final movie go to System settings -> Playback -> Pulldown: 2:3:2:3
If your system is fast enough it can do this. If not you'll need to add the pulldown. (Should be possible between FCP and CinemaTools but I've never done it. Standard option in After Effects, Commotion and other packages)
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

Howdy All,

I was just skimming the answers to this question, as I just purchased FCP HD. Thanks for all the info.

One quick question though, I noticed Scott mentioned setting up capture as NDF. I recorded footage on the 100a at 24pa with DF. Will this cause a problem? And moving forward, should I be recording NDF?

Thanks,
Donny
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

DVX will record NDF for all 24 footage regardless of your user settings.
Make sure to set FCP to NDF as well or your timecode logs will be wacky relative to the picture.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

just to clarify- if I am going back to tape in my final output...there's no need to remove the pulldown and edit in a 24p timeline?....correct? I can simply import the footage as normal 30fps or 60i into a 30 fps timeline.

However, let's say I will be going back to tape and creating a DVD.....is it easier to edit in a 30 fps timeline and then convert for a 24p DVD or do the conversion upon capture....edit in a 24p timeline and then convert back to 30fps for the output to tape?

also- if I author a 24p DVD...when it plays on a non-progressive DVD player it will play as interlaced video but a progressive DVD player will output the progressive image. correct?
thoughts?
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

24p and 24pa both capture images as 24 frames per second, progressive (non-interlaced) Both are recorded to tape in a 60i ('normal') video mode so they can be displayed on TV's and dealt with in a normal way. Both can be converted into pure 24fps (or 23.98fps to be more accurate) (to go to 24p DVD or film) and both can be converted from 23.98 to 29.97 video again. There are differences in how they are laid to tape which may make one better than the other for certain tasks.

For tape output:
24p -> direct capture to 29.97 sequence. No need to remove pulldown.
Edit as you'd like. However you won't be able to easily convert back into 24fps after the edit since edits may cross fields (if you cut at a point where part of the frame is on the included frame as a field and the other part is on the next frame that's not included you'll have trouble).

For DVD:
You can do the same as above for 24 fps footage in 29.97 and burn it normally
or
you can shoot 24pa, capture with advance pulldown removal into 23.98 sequence and go out as 24fps DVD.


What to choose:
24p provides the look right out of the camera of film transfered to video.
3:2 pulldown is added in the camera just as if you had telecined it from film. You can take the 29.97 directly out from the camera and edit that in a 29.97 sequence and dump it back to video tape or DVD.
Hard to go back to 24 after the edit as noted above.
You can convert 24p to pure 23.98 footage by using Cinema Tools to remove the 3:2 pulldown (reverse telecine) At that point it's the same as if you shot 24pa and had removed the pulldown on capture.
The potetnial downside is slightly lower quality on the mixed fields and the extra time to do the reverse telecine.
24p is good if you want the look of film motion but don't want to treat it differently in the edit and output process.

24pa provides a slightly cleaner image since pure frames are dropped and it allows edit systems to convert on capture. (where 24p required a separate and longer process) The downside is when viewed directly from the camera it's not as smooth since some frames are duplicated.
24pa needs advanced pulldown (2:3:3:2) removal to be of value. It's then in a 23.98 sequence. Once it's editied you may go out to a 23.98 dvd which will add the pulldown (3:2 telecine) or you can output it to tape with the 3:2 added during playback (if your machine is powerful enough) You can also add 3:2 pulldown with After Effects, Commotion, etc.

Either one of these can go to film if desired but 24pa would provide a cleaner and faster way to deal with it.

DVD players should be doing the right thing depending on the content and the type of display.

Note that I'm not sure iDVD will allow all options that DVD Studio Pro has.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

Hey Scott,

That 2 frame audio offset that you spoke about, is that something I will ONLY notice once I bring the clip onto the timeline? Because I played some clips in the viewer just now and the audio was in sync. I didn't change the offset yet like you suggested.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

I just spent all night color correcting my 2 minute project and I am ready to export it.

What is the deal with the pull down? I am going to be going straight to DVD so do I need to add it back? If so, how do I go about doing that?
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

If you have DVD Studio then you can export using Compressor and choose 24p settings.
iDVD doesn't have built in 24p support as I understand it.
 
Re: Setting up for 24p editing

I don't have SP3 so what should I do? If I export using idvd it just won't have the true 24p look right?
 
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