GH5 Sense-checking working zoom options for MFT at the moment

B

bengiles

Well-known member
Hi All.

I just wanted to check if I've missed anything.

Context: We've been using the GH5S as a B Cam to a Sony FS7.

We've sold the FS7 and will be using the GH5S with a new GH5 (mainly for the better image stabiliser options.)

I need to get a general working zoom for handheld actuality filming to use with the GH5. I already have a Leica Panny 12-60, but it's relatively slow for MFT.

I'm looking for an MFT equivalent replacement for our Sony E-Mount 18-110. On S35, that's constant f4 - so we'll need a constant f2.8 for MFT.

We can go with a pair of 12-35 and 35-100 - advantages are dual IS and Panny native-ness. But it would be nice if something exists with the full range (or near as dammit, but with a decent wide end.)

Am I missing a trick? Anything else I should consider?

Thanks in advance,

Ben.
 
Thanks. I had a play with a prototype a couple of days ago in London. Quite a beast on the GH5.

Unfortunately we have to start shooting a project in a month, so I think we’ll miss out.

Someone else on the FB forum mentioned the Sigma Art 18-35 and 35-100 on boosters. Any experience with how they behave with the GH5 IBIS? Is it more effective than regular lens IS? The 12-60 IS doesn’t remove micro jitters very effectively for me.

Cheers,

Ben.
 
Other than faster f-stop, the Sigma 18-35mm does not perform as well as the Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8. ( it's also a little flare-prone with high contrast lighting )

I am surprised that you are seeing micro-jitters with the 12-60mm Lumix lens, as GH5 IBIS pretty much cured micro-jitters with every lens I own. ( I sold off my 35-100 mm f/2.8 version 1 lens because I could not get rid of micro-jitters with the GH4, but the version 2 lens did not have this problem. The GH5 would have likely solved the problem too, but I had already replaced the ver 1 lens by the time the GH5 came around )
 
Sorry, I’m not being very clear. I’ve been using the GH5S - the regular GH5 arrives Monday. 12-60 on the GH5S (ie without IBIS) has been too jittery for me in a lightweight handheld setup.

The more I look, the more compelling the standard set of 12-35 and 35-100. It means a bit of lens swapping and changing the way I shoot, but the ultralight setup of 2 x 10 bit cams in one bag is so liberating after the FS7/18-110.

So the kit is looking like:

GH5
GH5S
12-35
35-100
15/1.7
20/1.7

Cheers,

Ben.
 
bengiles said:
Sorry, I’m not being very clear. I’ve been using the GH5S - the regular GH5 arrives Monday. 12-60 on the GH5S (ie without IBIS) has been too jittery for me in a lightweight handheld setup.
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Ok, that makes more sense. Yeah, the GH5s has to be on some sort of stabilizer to get jitter free footage. The OIS built into the lenses helps, but is nowhere near as good as the in-body IBIS is. I've shot crisp handheld panning shots with the GH5 and a fully manual Nikon 135mm f/2.8 AI-S lens adapted to the MFT mount. I was surprised in post that I could read the gum-wrapper text at the feet of the person I was filming hand-held.

The 12-35mm f/2.8 and 35-100mm f/2.8 are workhorse lenses that you will likely end-up using all the time. I shoot with faster prime lenses when I have the time to swap lenses, but these two zooms are a great fallback when you need to work quickly.

If you have the time you might want to try out the GH5 LOG ---> ARRI LOG LUTs that Emotive Color produces. It's a very good simulation of ARRI color.

bengiles said:
So the kit is looking like:

GH5
GH5S
12-35
35-100
15/1.7
20/1.7
Click to expand...

This is essentially my light weight travel kit. I don't own the PL 15mm f/1.7, but have the Olympus 12mm f/2.0 instead, which is about the same size. The 20mm f/1.7 is my "standard" lens that I use quite a bit. It's small, fast, and I prefer the wider look compared to the traditional 25mm "standard" lens. I also use the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 lens when I want to isolate my subject but still have a fast f-stop to shoot with. ( it's a good portrait lens for photos too )
 
TheDingo said:
Ok, that makes more sense. Yeah, the GH5s has to be on some sort of stabilizer to get jitter free footage. The OIS built into the lenses helps, but is nowhere near as good as the in-body IBIS is. I've shot crisp handheld panning shots with the GH5 and a fully manual Nikon 135mm f/2.8 AI-S lens adapted to the MFT mount. I was surprised in post that I could read the gum-wrapper text at the feet of the person I was filming hand-held.

The 12-35mm f/2.8 and 35-100mm f/2.8 are workhorse lenses that you will likely end-up using all the time. I shoot with faster prime lenses when I have the time to swap lenses, but these two zooms are a great fallback when you need to work quickly.

If you have the time you might want to try out the GH5 LOG ---> ARRI LOG LUTs that Emotive Color produces. It's a very good simulation of ARRI color.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate - really useful. I'll take a look those LUTs. The Panny LUT seems way too red when applied in PP Lumetri - but I still need to do some decent LUT testing.

TheDingo said:
I also use the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 lens when I want to isolate my subject but still have a fast f-stop to shoot with. ( it's a good portrait lens for photos too )
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Did you consider the Panny Nocticron 42.5 1.2? I love the fact it has IS on such a fast prime.

Cheers,

Ben.
 
I'm also in agreement with the 12-35mm/35-100mm combo, don't know what I would do without them. I had a friend's 12-35mm (ver1) that I had been using for several years and finally had to give it back, so I tried to make due with the Sigma 18-35mm + speed booster and quickly gave it up. Just too heavy for handheld and not enough reach. I got the updated 12-35mm ver 2 and sold the Sigma and haven't looked back. I've shot with both in a downpour as well which I would have never done with the Sigma.
 
bengiles said:
Did you consider the Panny Nocticron 42.5 1.2? I love the fact it has IS on such a fast prime.
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It's one of the few fast primes that has OIS. I generally find GH5 IBIS is stable enough for almost any lens, so it doesn't matter to me if the lens has OIS or not. I've also had better results with the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 versus the Panasonic 42.5mm f/1.7 lens. ( I might have had a bad copy of the Panny lens )

Right now I own about a dozen MFT lenses, so I'm pretty happy with what I've got, but I want to see if a new GH6 is going to be released next Spring because I'm on the fence about adding a Full Frame S1 camera to my kit. The S1 will give me the low-light of the GH5s and still have IBIS for handheld shooting, but it means another line of lenses that I have to buy into. So I'm going to give it a year and see what shows up in 2020.
 
brudney said:
I know it's not f2.8, but have a look at Oly 12-100 f4. Great glass with useful range.
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I’ve been put off by non Panny lenses, because of the loss of dual IBIS. Also, in S35 terms, an MFT f4 is a constant f6.3 or so - f8 in full frame 35. I guess that’s the physics trade off. The cake we can’t eat :happy:
 
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It's not in the same class as most of these other lenses, but let me give a shout out about Panasonic's 14-140 lens. I also have the Panasonic 12-35, 35-100, 12-60 and 100-300 lenses, and my lens of choice most of the time is the 14-140. I do a lot of wildlife shooting, and it is a great compromise for focal length. I pop on the 100-300 lens when I really need the distance, but the 14-140 is on my camera most of the time. It theoretically should not look as good as the 12-35 and 35-100, but it holds its own. But the aperture starts at f3.5 and quickly rises from there, so it is not for every type of shooting. But damn... I find it flexible when I shoot insects and birds in a wetlands.

When I shoot film-style, it's either the 12-60 or 12-35.
 
Yes, the 14-140mm is my go to for outdoor wedding ceremonies. Only time it's unflattering is when you zoom in or out, the focus goes out and then comes back in awkwardly, this happens on the 35-100mm also but much less noticeable. I've got the original mk1 so I don't know if that is still an issue on the mk2.
 
Thanks for the advice and opinions. I’ve gone for the 12-35ii, 35-100ii, 15/1.7, 20//1.7 and Nocticron 42.5/1.2.

Cheers,

Ben.
 
If you dropped the FS7 for the GH5 I feel sorry for you. I have a love hate relationship with my GH5 and GH5S. It’s taken a while to recognize the potential ruin they cause for weddings, as well as acknowledge they are probably also still the best overall for weddings. But despite the autofocus improvements the updates have brought, it amazes me how it can totally blur the glittering bride in the foreground to bring into sharp focus the all-important bar tender and clock in the background. The GH5S is actually the worse of the two in this regard. The Nocticron 42.5 f1.2 is sharp wide open, detailed and colorful, brilliant in low light but has focus breathing exceeded only by the otherwise almost equally brilliant 25mn f1.4. The Nocticron 42.5 f1.2 lens stabilization is barely better than useless on the GH5S. As long as you are steady and don’ t pan with it, when used in combination with the GH5S electronic stabilization (yes it has this, not IBIS), it is reasonably good at eliminating micro jitters. But if you pan, there is so little compliance in the lens OIS it will create nauseating jumps as it falls behind then shoots ahead to catch up. Your best friend is to switch lens and camera electronic stabilization off and use it with a fluid head or gimbal.

The sad fact is that the GH5 isn’t good enough for weddings without the fastest glass and even then. The Gh5s is amazing in low light. There is one combination I’ve found that is the most useful, and that’s the GH5 with the Leica 12-60mm f2.8-4.0. It’s the one lens in my kit that I can depend on to not wreck the footage on a large scale, shoot handheld dependably, but you have to switch to the GH5S when the lights go dim. So that’s the complication of using them both, you have to plan ahead, have your non-variable ND on the GH5 along with the one zoom you can truly trust (12-60mm f2.8-4.0 Leica), and you can go into battle with that until dark, then go to the GH5S with a fast prime on a gimbal or fluid head, but auto focus then becomes your nemesis, just gets worse with diminishing light, better shoot manual.

IBIS is awesome until you see the warping in the corners, and once you see this it is impossible to unsee. And there is a phenomenon where IBIS can self excite itself into a warbling mess. Switch it off if it’s on a tripod, but it has happened (although rarely handheld). IBIS is not a panacea. Focus breathing seems a feature of all my Leica m43 glass. My Olmpus 40-150mm 2.8 pro was horribly soft at full zoom but I believe this was a consequence of using variable ND. I’m still sorting out what went wrong, the lens is new and so is the filter so I’ve got some test shots ahead, but preliminary looks like the variable ND is at fault, but it points out a flaw in giving up an FS7 is that you also gave up built-in ND when you went to GH5/5s.
 
Tom Roper said:
If you dropped the FS7 for the GH5 I feel sorry for you.
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No need to feel sorry for me - I’m a big boy and I’ve shot all major formats from S16, via One inch tape, Beta SP, HDV, SR, Varicam and a multitude of digital formats over the past 32 years. I’ve even shot a couple of weddings - but only for mates :cheesy: None of them have been perfect - but then again, absolutely none of them have required the amount of fiddling and head scratching as the FS7, with which I’ve had a love-hate relationship.

3.5 years with an FS7 in diverse locations around the UK, Europe, Nepal, Namibia, USA and the Arctic have given me a reasonable grasp of it’s abilities and it’s shortcomings. One of the things that gave me pause for thought a few months ago was that the cheap GH5S B cam was quite simply giving me far better 10 bit pics than the FS7/Log/Cine EI/SGamut.

I’m happy to give the GH package a go, and I’m trading things like internal ND for a tiny discrete footprint - important for a lot of the documentary work it will be used for. The GH5S will be used only on sticks and the GH5 for actuality. I don’t shoot for anyone else, my wife of 25 years is my sound recordist and we’re not chasing brides or party guests.

If the GH package doesn’t work for us, we’ll move it on. But I’m looking forward to trying - and preliminary results look very promising. Oh and the Leica 12-60? For me, nice enough range, but too slow for MFT and the ramp in aperture proved irritating - I sold it back to a dealer last week. To each their own, I guess.

Cheers,

Ben.
 
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The GH5S has a very nice image, there is no doubt. But I too answered the siren call for a tiny discrete footprint, and found it to be a fallacy in that you have to put it on sticks yes, but it gives the worst of either experience, still have tiny and fiddly controls for larger hands yet the smaller footprint isn’t put to good use. If anything, it’s easier to shake it if you touch it than a solid camera and mount. Hand held I can hold it steady, but as soon as I have to move with it and simultaneously refocus or rezoom recompose or pan etc, the tiny footprint becomes a liability compared to something that goes on your shoulder or a 100mm bowl or focuses with a smooth manual clutch or zoom ring. Servo zoom and servo focus shows in the footage and it is amateurish! The PanLeica series majorly suck for this! I’m not saying what you can or can’t do but one thing I see is all manner of wedding shooters and styles points to the never ending search for what works, and you can’t stay in it if your footage is shaky, and neither IBIS nor any kind of stabilization outside of gimbal is the answer, that’s the conundrum of photo style footprint, it’s small and convenient but doesn’t guarantee the right ergonomic. And a gimbal like everything introduces its own complications, like how are you going to set it down, can you carry or shoot with it while carrying the other camera on tripod or bouncing on your strap, or do you leave it on the ground to get stepped on or stolen? Weddings are hard work, on the move, you learn a few things. If you have it so good that you can shoot corporate or interviews or stationary events which I have done, anything can work, but hand held the dslr footprint makes lots more sense for still photographers than a video cameraman.
 
Yes weddings are hard work and hard on equipment, all the more reason I’d never shoot one on a FS7. No weather sealing, lots of fragile attachments, and your going to have a backup right? So 2 FS7’s or compromise with a Sony mirrorless as a second cam. No thanks. I’ll take a GH5 and GH5S combo every day of the week.
 
homerc67 said:
Yes weddings are hard work and hard on equipment, all the more reason I’d never shoot one on a FS7. No weather sealing, lots of fragile attachments, and your going to have a backup right? So 2 FS7’s or compromise with a Sony mirrorless as a second cam. No thanks. I’ll take a GH5 and GH5S combo every day of the week.
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It is the combo I use and the best for weddings, but it's a case where the best is still not ideal. I was not saying the FS7 is the answer but tossing it for a GH5 is trading one set of compromises for another, if you thought it was going to solve everything.
 
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