Sennheiser MKH416 vs. MKH60

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PhotoScout

Member
Looking into the possibility or replacing my MKH416 with a MKH60 (One recently came up for sale at a price, which is agreeable with me. I could sell my 416 and only dish out a little extra for the 60)

I do one-man-band run-n-gun live-event coverage/documentary work.
On my Canon C100, I have an Audio Technica AT4053B for general sound.
For interviews, I set the camera on a tripod and use my 416 with a pistol grip and my Sound Devices 702 to get closer to the talent (I need to monitor audio and video at same time)

The above scenario is for generally busy/loud environments, if it is quiet or in a reflective indoor space, I will swap the mic positions, with the 416 as general sound and AT4053B as interview mic.

So...

Should I replace the 416 with the 60?
Would the wider pick-up pattern on the 60 be better for on-camera mounting?
Would the 60 be better or worse at picking-up the talent sound while rejecting other noise? (think background chatter/noise at a comic convention)
Which mic performs better at a slightly farther distance? (sometimes I can't get the mic as close as I need)
Any other direct comparisons of the two mics?
 
MKH 60 will have a lower noise floor but the pickup pattern is wider than a 416. I wouldn't give up the 416 for a 60 as the 416 probably has more utility for the kind of shooting you describe. If I were to replace the 416 it would be with a Sanken cs-3e as it doesn't have the rear lobe and it works indoors more so than the 416 which can be a horror show inside and of course there is the Schoeps cmit 5u.

The Sanken I mentioned is an amazing microphone in this category of mic. The MKH 60 is often used with a MKH40 for M/S recording because it has a relatively moderate but not tight pickup pattern. The Senheiser 8060 is by some seen as a 416 replacement. For indoor dialogue and a general indoor boom pole microphone, the MKH 50 is by many considered THE microphone to get out of the Sennheiser MKH series. You rarely see them for sale as used.
 
David W. Jones said:
Thought about adding something like an EV RE50B with a buttplug?
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I have a Sennheiser MD46 for field radio interviews, but for video work, the microphone cannot be in the shot.

Andrew Stone said:
MKH 60 will have a lower noise floor but the pickup pattern is wider than a 416. I wouldn't give up the 416 for a 60 as the 416 probably has more utility for the kind of shooting you describe. If I were to replace the 416 it would be with a Sanken cs-3e as it doesn't have the rear lobe and it works indoors more so than the 416 which can be a horror show inside and of course there is the Schoeps cmit 5u.

The Sanken I mentioned is an amazing microphone in this category of mic. The MKH 60 is often used with a MKH40 for M/S recording because it has a relatively moderate but not tight pickup pattern. The Senheiser 8060 is by some seen as a 416 replacement. For indoor dialogue and a general indoor boom pole microphone, the MKH 50 is by many considered THE microphone to get out of the Sennheiser MKH series. You rarely see them for sale as used.
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I've seen the Sanken used quite a bit on-camera, guess that makes sense as to why. It has a little bit of a "darker" tone, yes? Any other comparisons of the CS-3e vs the 416?
My ideal scenario would be to replace the 416 and at4053b with the Schoeps Cmit5u and CMC64 mk 4 combo.
 
The Sanken CS-3e definitely has a darker or more robust tone. I use on camera microphones but never the Sanken CS-3e. For interviews that are sit down I will boom it in with a boom helper on a C-Stand if I am doing it alone, for man in the street stuff I will hand off the microphone with a wireless plug and use a mic with a slightly wider pickup pattern on the camera.
 
I own the CS3e and it is the shiznit. I will be buried with it. Never ceases to amaze me and my clients love the sound of my... sound. It's not a magical mic tho, the MKH50 would be better than the CS3e or 416 indoor in a reflective room, but the CS3e is definitely better than the 416 indoors.
 
I think the combo you have is pretty good. You and other experts may notice a difference in sound. I can tell you that I, and most others would not. The only reason I can see for you to upgrade is if your clients are sophisticated enough to be impressed by the names on your equipment.
 
Ryan-Guy said:
I own the CS3e and it is the shiznit. I will be buried with it. Never ceases to amaze me and my clients love the sound of my... sound. It's not a magical mic tho, the MKH50 would be better than the CS3e or 416 indoor in a reflective room, but the CS3e is definitely better than the 416 indoors.
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Agreed on all counts.
 
PhotoScout said:
Actually, how does the Sanken CS-3e compare to the Shoeps CMit5u for noise rejection?
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The jury is still out on this, but I think the CS3e wins in outright ratio of wanted to unwanted sound.

iain.bason said:
You can listen to the two of them: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html
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Have a listen of the CS3e vs. CMIT on that page... IMO the CS3e sounds similar to the 5u when it's in "neutral" settings. (This also reflects my own experience with the two)

When you listen to the CMIT5u example, Ken says "this is the mild bass roll-off" and gives an example... then he says, "this is a more radical bass roll-off"... but that's not a good choice of words, because the middle button on the CMIT is the "radical" one. Here's what the buttons do on the 5u; the top button enhances high-end, specifically +5dB at 10kHz... the middle button, the one he says is "mild bass roll-off" is actually really aggressive because while it's only a 6 dB/octave cut, it starts way up at 300 Hz... so it thins the mic out dramatically. You'd use this when something obnoxious is killing intelligibility... next, bottom button... is a low-cut at 80 Hz, but steep, at 18 dB/octave. I leave this on all the time... it's also what has me considering a mini CMIT, because I rarely use any mic for dialog in the flat configuration. (the mini has a fixed 70 Hz low-cut, which I find to be zero problem what-so-ever)

I also have a CS3e... I had two up until recently, and it's possibly my favorite mic, even in light of the CMIT... I've also got mkh40 and 50. In my experience, there's very little the CS3e can't do well. I've been going back and forth with the CS3e and CMIT, trying to figure out which one I like better, but it's been hard to turn my back on my rock-solid history with the Sanken.

I like the mkh-60 enough, but if I were in the market to try a different mic in that price-range, I'd try to get a newer 8060 instead... the early 8060 had some issues that were resolved in the last few years, but I'm a fan of the recent generation of 8060. It's an underrated mic.
 
MattinSTL said:
I like the mkh-60 enough, but if I were in the market to try a different mic in that price-range, I'd try to get a newer 8060 instead... the early 8060 had some issues that were resolved in the last few years, but I'm a fan of the recent generation of 8060. It's an underrated mic.
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This, absolutely. People love the 8060 for a reason.
 
The MKH60 is definitely a very nice microphone, but I don't know if I'd want to mount that on a camera. It's physically pretty big. I've seen that mic more on scripted stuff on a boom than the type of work you describe yourself doing. The 416 is to production sound what the Shure SM57 is to the recording studio. If you have one, I'd recommend possibly just holding on to it and maybe augmenting with a CS-3e. The Schoeps CMIT is also very nice, and they just came out with the mini-CMIT that you might want to check out.
 
Andrew Stone said:
MKH 60 will have a lower noise floor but the pickup pattern is wider than a 416. I wouldn't give up the 416 for a 60 as the 416 probably has more utility for the kind of shooting you describe. If I were to replace the 416 it would be with a Sanken cs-3e as it doesn't have the rear lobe and it works indoors more so than the 416 which can be a horror show inside and of course there is the Schoeps cmit 5u.

The Sanken I mentioned is an amazing microphone in this category of mic. The MKH 60 is often used with a MKH40 for M/S recording because it has a relatively moderate but not tight pickup pattern. The Senheiser 8060 is by some seen as a 416 replacement. For indoor dialogue and a general indoor boom pole microphone, the MKH 50 is by many considered THE microphone to get out of the Sennheiser MKH series. You rarely see them for sale as used.
Click to expand...

Sanken CS-3e is not a replacement for the 416 either, I used both for a TV series shoot recently. When the CS-3e was picking up RF issues from the pig hunters' dog collar transmitters (a very odd and rare situation!! Doubt anyone else on this forum will encounter exactly the same scenario) then I was very very glad I had a 416 at hand to save the day.
 
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