Sennheiser ME80 too quiet? Worn out?

B

blickblocks

Active member
Hi, first post but been lurking for a while. I picked up a Zoom H4n so I could use it's phantom power to power my Sennheiser ME80. I believe the mic is about 30 years old. It appears to be working when I turn on phantom power, but I'm barely getting over -24dB on it under any circumstances (without compressor on, maximum gain). Also, it's not really picking up anything from a distance. Maybe I'm just used to newer, more sensitive mics but this seems like it's just not working right. Do electrets wear out over time?
 
First thing is to check the mic with another device, preferably a true mixer or studio pre-amp. The H4n is well known to have weaker pre-amps than many others, and it simply won't drive certain mics as well.
 
Alex H. said:
First thing is to check the mic with another device, preferably a true mixer or studio pre-amp. The H4n is well known to have weaker pre-amps than many others, and it simply won't drive certain mics as well.
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Oh no. :( Should I look into a portable preamp box? I have a TON of room on the back of my shoulder rig so space isn't too much of a concern, I really just want to have a good quality mic. Maybe I should sell and get something newer?
 
The ME80 is a good quality mic. But when they go out......it's usually a hard stop. It just wont work any more.

+1 on checking it on a decent mixer or other gear. I wouldn't depend on the H4n to be both your mixer and recorder, I suggest finding a mixer and record to the H4n. Allow the mixer to provide your P-power and pre-amp for the mic (they are invariably better than the H4n's P-Power and pre's).

What area are you in Blickblocks? If in So Cal......... I could take a look at it for you. I still have a bit audio left over. My 828 MkII has decent pre's we could check it on. Plus we can go through it, cleaning all the contacts, etc.
 
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I have been using an ME80 for over two years and the other comments are correct. While the ME80/K3 (you didn't say whether you're using the K3 or K2U electronics) is a very nice warm sounding and highly directional shotgun, it's output is low. Combine it's low output with something like the H4n which does have a lot of clean gain and you will get the levels you describe. I started out running the ME80 into a Tascam DR-100 which allowed typical dialog levels of around -20 or so. Adding a mixer will indeed help but use a mixer with quality preamps becuase the ME80 will still require a bunch of gain to deliver appropriate dialog levels.

blickblocks said:
Hi, first post but been lurking for a while. I picked up a Zoom H4n so I could use it's phantom power to power my Sennheiser ME80. I believe the mic is about 30 years old. It appears to be working when I turn on phantom power, but I'm barely getting over -24dB on it under any circumstances (without compressor on, maximum gain). Also, it's not really picking up anything from a distance. Maybe I'm just used to newer, more sensitive mics but this seems like it's just not working right. Do electrets wear out over time?
Click to expand...
 
Doc Bernard said:
The ME80 is a good quality mic. But when they go out......it's usually a hard stop. It just wont work any more.

+1 on checking it on a decent mixer or other gear. I wouldn't depend on the H4n to be both your mixer and recorder, I suggest finding a mixer and record to the H4n. Allow the mixer to provide your P-power and pre-amp for the mic (they are invariably better than the H4n's P-Power and pre's).

What area are you in Blickblocks? If in So Cal......... I could take a look at it for you. I still have a bit audio left over. My 828 MkII has decent pre's we could check it on. Plus we can go through it, cleaning all the contacts, etc.
Click to expand...

That's nice of you to offer! I'm in Ohio actually. I'll have to see if I can find a friend to test it on their mixer.

Is there a portable mixer in a form factor similar to a portable preamp or the H4n?
 
Alex H. said:
Sound Devices MixPre. Even better: the new MixPre-D.
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Out of my price range unfortunately. Maybe I should look into a lavalier setup that is loud enough for the H4n to get a clean signal out of? To explain my usage, I'm shooting videos in a documentary format with a need for clean vocals. Ideally everything will be mounted on the shoulder rig for run and gun, rather than having an AC powered mixer or anything like that.

The Rode Videomic isn't pro quality but it's pretty decent, that can go right into the H4n right? Would it be worth selling the ME80?

Hope I'm not being a noob here, I used to do live audio for a Jewish temple but it was pretty straightforward since we had a 24 track mixer that handled preamp duties.
 
blickblocks said:
Out of my price range unfortunately.
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Sound Devices MM-1 or MP-1. The MM-1 costs a little more, but the added features are worth the price. Just don't ditch a good shotgun for an okay shotgun. The VideoMic Pro is great for what it is, but is very limiting if it's your only mic. Lavs will also restrict your abilities. Of course, having a shotgun mic, and only a shotgun mic, is a bad idea as well... there's no one mic that can do it all. It's best to have options.
 
Something to think about. A normal entry level rig, that will get you decent results is 3 channels. 2 lavs, and one shotgun. That is a really good entry point into set/location sound. So you will need at least a 3/2 mixer, with one channel having +48 power (for your shotgun mic, if it is not self-powered)

So at this point, do you buy a pre, or a mixer that will give you 3 channels in and stereo (2 channels) out. At this point, it comes down to preference. The H4n has really two XLR in's. Yes, you could jury rig adapters to take advantage of the 4 channel capabilities. But is it worth the hassle? Get a stereo out mixer. Min 3 channel in. I have done some sweet work with that very set-up.

Having 2 channels out drops you right in to the H4n.
 
My plan was to use the shotgun for direct voice and the built in mics for ambient sound, and in the future add in lavs. The H4n records 4 track so I thought I would just use it's onboard mixer.

I'll start shopping for a compact mixer, but I doubt I'll find anything in my price range. I just ordered a Manfrotto 501HDV and a DFocus follow focus, and I'm probably going to need to upgrade my sticks if mine don't work out. I think I'm doing well for having such a shoestring budget, thanks to being creative here and there, but when it comes to something like a mixer I don't want to cheap out and have a weak link.
 
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IMO, the onboard mics are a lost cause. You cannot control them other than volume. Use the H4n as just a recorder, not for any mic'ing abilities. Or, use as a scratch track to align to.
 
blickblocks said:
My plan was to use the shotgun for direct voice and the built in mics for ambient sound, and in the future add in lavs. The H4n records 4 track so I thought I would just use it's onboard mixer.
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I may be mis-reading, but while on-set you don't need the on-board mics. All you want is recording the shotgun mic (i.e. dialog) as cleanly as possible. Cars, airplanes, birds, running refrigerators, ect... should be avoided and/or turned off. FX (things like ambience, footsteps, door slams, gun shots, ect...) are recorded separately from dialog. Simple explanation is: it's pretty easy to go record doors, ambience, ect.. you need later on. Try re-recording an actors line because their's a bird in the background is way, way harder.

And to your original question, yes the ME80 is less sensitive than modern mics (5mV/Pa vs. 25mV/Pa for the spec watchers, as compared to the MKH416).

Since your focus is definitely on one mic, I recommend Sound Devices MP-1 (the MP-1's extra features are better designed for a boom op who running a line to a mixer/recorder far away in a 2-man sound team, imho). It'll give you 66dB of clean gain, so more than enough to get your levels up, and let you lower the gain setting on the H4n (which gets very noisy).
 
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Gohanto said:
I may be mis-reading, but while on-set you don't need the on-board mics. All you want is recording the shotgun mic (i.e. dialog) as cleanly as possible. Cars, airplanes, birds, running refrigerators, ect... should be avoided and/or turned off. FX (things like ambience, footsteps, door slams, gun shots, ect...) are recorded separately from dialog. Simple explanation is: it's pretty easy to go record doors, ambience, ect.. you need later on. Try re-recording an actors line because their's a bird in the background is way, way harder.

And to your original question, yes the ME80 is less sensitive than modern mics (5mV/Pa vs. 25mV/Pa for the spec watchers, as compared to the MKH416).

Since your focus is definitely on one mic, I recommend Sound Devices MP-1 (the MP-1's extra features are better designed for a boom op who running a line to a mixer/recorder far away in a 2-man sound team, imho). It'll give you 66dB of clean gain, so more than enough to get your levels up, and let you lower the gain setting on the H4n (which gets very noisy).
Click to expand...

I'm not working with actors, I'm shooting documentary style videos. I definitely will be recording ambient sound to mix separately. Thanks for the suggestions though.
 
Anyone ever used the Rode D-Power? It is a phantom powered 20dB inline boost. Seems like it would do the trick.

A bit talking head stuff, but also following artists around their studios and stuff. It really depends.
 
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