Sennheiser ME64 vs. ?

Bonedog

Bonedog

Active member
Not only am I inexperienced, but I'm strictly focused on photography. In fact this is the first time I've ventured into the audio section of the forum. The indie film/one man band is not where I'm headed, so I'm not too worried about learning the deep ins and outs of audio. Unfortunately, film schools want to see that you have a few one-man-band projects under your belt. This spring I'm putting a little short into production. No dialogue, but I want to capture environmental sound.

I have a few hundred bucks to spread over the whole production. Standard student type deal. I also have access to a Sennheiser ME64. My feeling is that the ME64 will do a decent job considering the nature of my project. I also expect that anything better would be outside my price range. But none of this is based on any audio knowledge. What do you all think?
 
If there is no dialog, then shoot everything MOS (an industry term for shooting without audio) and replace/recreate all your sound in post.

There are a few things that you can do:

- Stereo sound beds/ambient tracks, which can be recorded with something as simple as a Zoom H1. These are your background tracks that give the pictures an environment, and you can record them in the same locations but before and after principle production.
- Create Foley, which requires a bit more focus and a little more gear (a good mic and a good recorder, at the very least). These are the sounds that are created from scratch to replace the sounds of things like rustling leaves, papers, and clothing, to footsteps, to the clicks and clanks of metal and other materials being moved around. Ideally, they are created while watching playback of the footage to ensure accuracy.
- Use sound effects from pre-recorded libraries. There are a few free libraries on the web, as well as some from which you can purchase only the sounds you need or want.

SFX from libraries are all well and good, but there's nothing like Foley (properly-recorded and edited) to give you film an edge. And remember that almost none of what you see/hear in the movies was actually recorded during production, except for dialog of course. SFX, ambient beds, and Foley are always used to make everything sound big and alive.
 
Well now.. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that. I'll be real freed up doing the audio separately. Guess I was just thinking inside the box :) I am still a little curious about the ME64 though, if anyone cares to share their experiences.
 
Anything from Sennheiser with an "ME" in the front is a bottom of the line item. "ME66" and "ME-2" are all just cheap crap. If you insist on getting a mic all the Rode stuff related to video will do you better than any "ME" stuff. For a cheap all around cardioid mic you may like the NT3, or the M3(the cheaper version). For shotguns in your range the NTG-2 is decent. All have XLR connection. If you want something with a 3.5mm mini jack there is the Rode VideoMic, and VideoMic Pro.


Keep in mind that the cardioid mics are very susceptible to wind, as are the shotguns. The shotguns come with a foam windscreen, but would require something fuzzy to really defeat the wind. Same goes for the simple Zoom H1. For this project, you may just do well with the H1. It's stereo, but that's all you need for ambient. For dialogue you want a proper mono mic. Shotguns for outside, hypercardioids for inside. But for the most bang for your buck at this time the H1 and the Rode VideoMic will cover you in most situations - total cost 250.00. Bam The VideoMic uses the same capsule as the NTG-2 and sounds great. But it runs on battery and doesn't require phantom power. Just plug it into your camera or recorder (using the 3.5mm minijack).

Wind protection? RedHead for the Zoom. Deadcat for the VideoMic.
 
The ME64 is a cardioid capsule. It will work for some applications, as far as recording certain sounds for Foley and SFX. It's not the first or best choice for dialog (shotgun for exteriors, hypercardioid for interiors). And it can be useful in other applications (recording instruments and voice for music). That said, there are certainly much better mics in which you can invest.

For what application, exactly, are you considering the ME64? Just for recording Foley and FX, or do you want to be able to record dialog in the future? Keep in mind also that there's no "jack of all trades" mic, so depending on what you're wanting, you may be looking at two, three, or more microphones.
 
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I'm not really looking to buy a ME64, but I have access to one. I interned for the local community cable channel a while back and now they let me check out their gear. Albeit most of their gear is pretty low end, (their audio stuff pretty much consists of a handful of SM58s and ME64s) but it is free. So for this specific project I would just be using the ME64 in place of an H1 for Foley and FX like your saying. I might consider using it to recored a score, but I'm not too worried about that right now. If I ever have a project where I would want to record dialogue, based on what you all have said, I would want to invest in a Rode or possibly Audio Technica shotgun. But that would be a different project, different budget. For now I'm not too comfortable with my (non)actors talking.
 
My Cheap Crap Set-up

My Cheap Crap Set-up

Chadfish said:
"ME66" and "ME-2" are all just cheap crap.

The VideoMic uses the same capsule as the NTG-2 and sounds great. But it runs on battery and doesn't require phantom power. Just plug it into your camera or recorder (using the 3.5mm minijack).
Click to expand...

And to think that I preferred the sound I got from the Sennheiser to the Rode. And to use the VideoMic, attached to the camcorder, using an unbalanced minijack.

I guess all of us who own and use this 'crap' just have inferior ears...and sensibilities.

It's one thing to say you prefer one mic over another; it'a another to call a $600 mic 'crap'.

As for the VideoMic, the less said the better. Who needs a boom and XLR?
 
scottfs said:
And to think that I preferred the sound I got from the Sennheiser to the Rode. And to use the VideoMic, attached to the camcorder, using an unbalanced minijack.

I guess all of us who own and use this 'crap' just have inferior ears...and sensibilities.

It's one thing to say you prefer one mic over another; it'a another to call a $600 mic 'crap'.

As for the VideoMic, the less said the better. Who needs a boom and XLR?
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I, too, have to disagree with you Chadfish. I love my 64 and I get great results with it.
 
Chadfish said:
Anything from Sennheiser with an "ME" in the front is a bottom of the line item.
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Not true - ME stands for "Mikrofon Ekletret" and was applied to all Sennheiser pre-polarised microphones in some way.

MKE stands for "Mikrofon Kondenser Elektret".

The MKE prefix was normally used for complete microphones and the ME prefix for microphone heads.

So the ME prefix was mostly used for the heads for the K2, K3, K6 and MKE 100 series - none of these are cheap or bottom-end.

I agree the ME 2 is an inexpensive low-end mic., as is also the ME4. But as there was already and MKE 2 (a top quality tie mic.) they had to use the ME prefix instead for the cheaper version.

That's all - ME does NOT stand for bottom end.
 
Let me just throw something out, here. You're on a budget. You have a Senn ME64 someone will let you use for free. Why not shoot what you want, record the ambient sound, and if it doesn't work for you, go to foley and sound effects in post? It's easy to strip off the sound from the digital files you capture. So, capture the sound you think you want, and use it if it works. If it doesn't, round file it.

As for the ME64 and its quality, you can see that you've gotten varying opinions about it. A lot of that has to do with what you're used to working with. Those used to dealing with very high end and expensive equipment are, naturally, going to tend towards thinking lower-end equipment is crap. Someone shooting on an Arri Alexa and using a $50,000 lens is going to think my EX3 is crap. And that's OK with me. I buy what I buy and use what I use because I believe it to be the right price/quality trade-off for what I shoot.

I use the Rode mic line, mostly, because I happen to like the fuller sound the Rodes give me compared to Senns of comparable price (to my ear, anyway, and I'm not a huge audiophile, so take my opinion with a very large grain of salt). But this is a student project. I hardly think buying a Rode VideoMic (which was one of my first mics) to replace a Senn ME64 would be worth it to you, though I don't know how you'll be graded, or how tough the grading is when it comes to equipment/sound quality.
 
Sorry but the ME66, which I have had for 7 years, is a brittle sounding, low-end shotgun that is one of the least able shotguns to deal with indoor reflections, and indeed the NTG-2 kills it. That extra brightness in the high end was beneficial back in the days of analogue audio, as it would cut through the hiss and dullness of tape, but in a digital world it's not the best choice at it's price-point of 500.00. My point was that the VideoMic uses the same capsule as the NTG-2, not that the consumer VideoMic is to be taken seriously for professional work. And the NTG-2 is a much warmer and natural sounding mic at half the price.

I didn't say anything about MKE John. I just noticed that the ME-2 and ME66 are both low end in the Sennheiser spectrum. Does Sennheiser have a lower-end lav than the ME-66? Do they have a lower-end shotgun that the ME-66? Lower end cardioid than the ME64? Anyone? Just because one bloke got touchy because he misread my post doesn't make the Sennheiser ME mics any better. So they are good enough for you? OK. I admit that "Crap" is a subjective term, but low-end is accurate, because they are not mid and they are not high end if you look at all the Senn mics. I think the NTG-2, which I also consider low-end, sounds better.

Sheesh, 4 months later and all of a sudden everyone's feelings are hurt! Hey, at least it all sounds better than Azden! Am I right? Tough crowd...
 
I decided on my Sennheiser ME66 based upon a lot of research into recording wildlife sounds. While it is not a Schoeps, which I could not and cannot afford, it was one of the highest rated mics for this purpose. I have since used it in several shorts. I do have several other mics including several AT mics, shotgun, dynamic, and lav, the director wanted the Sennheiser. One of the other sound guys brought a Rode, but the director like the ME66 the best, because of the rejection of ambient noise.

It's not a perfect mic but certainly did well for my wildlife recording.
 
StuOS said:
Let me just throw something out, here. You're on a budget. You have a Senn ME64 someone will let you use for free. Why not shoot what you want, record the ambient sound, and if it doesn't work for you, go to foley and sound effects in post? It's easy to strip off the sound from the digital files you capture. So, capture the sound you think you want, and use it if it works. If it doesn't, round file it.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking. This isn't some big budget thing here. It sounds like you are doing stuff to get some experience and learn. No need to blow your wad on a bunch of gear right now. Use what's available to you.
 
Chadfish said:
Does Sennheiser have a lower-end lav than the ME-66? Do they have a lower-end shotgun that the ME-66? Lower end cardioid than the ME64?
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Yes, of course, MKE 300 and MKE 400 are lower end than the 66. And there are several cardioids lower end than the ME 64.

OK, they don't suit what you are doing, that's fine, but they are great for what other people are doing.

A mic. is just a tool and you choose the one that does what you want it to do.
 
scottfs said:
I decided on my Sennheiser ME66 based upon a lot of research into recording wildlife sounds. While it is not a Schoeps, which I could not and cannot afford, it was one of the highest rated mics for this purpose. I have since used it in several shorts. I do have several other mics including several AT mics, shotgun, dynamic, and lav, the director wanted the Sennheiser. One of the other sound guys brought a Rode, but the director like the ME66 the best, because of the rejection of ambient noise.

It's not a perfect mic but certainly did well for my wildlife recording.
Click to expand...

Agreed - actually the K6+ME66 is very popular with wildlife recordists. I know one man who takes his up into the Arctic in Norway - the bit at the very top, north of Finland and on the border with Russia.
 
Chadfish said:
What about the NTG-3? It's only 100.00 more, and is quite nice IMO.
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The NTG-3 is good value for money.

However, I discovered yesterday how inexpensive the New Sennheiser MKH 8060 is. It is vastly better than the 416 and better even than the MKH 60. I have seen one dealer selling it for £649! At that price it's a bargain.

I already have other mics. in the MKH 8000 series so know how good the series is.
 
John Willett said:
I discovered yesterday how inexpensive the New Sennheiser MKH 8060 is. It is vastly better than the 416 and better even than the MKH 60. I have seen one dealer selling it for £649! At that price it's a bargain.
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If you include the filter/pad module, it's actually about $150 more than the MKH 60, though, which includes those as standard features.

- Greg
 
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