Sennheiser EW 100 ENG G3/G4 - Preferred levels?

QuickHitRecord

QuickHitRecord

Veteran
I'll preface this by saying that I'm not an audio guy and I don't tweak my settings a lot. I like to "set it and forget it" so that I'm only tweaking levels on the camera dials. If more is necessary, I'll push for the budget to work with an audio pro.

I've got two G3 transmitter/receiver sets on the exact safe AF OUT and SENSITIVITY settings, but one comes into my C70 hot (i.e. it's not clipping in-camera and the bars aren't jumping too high, but it sounds clipped when the talent raises their voice). I've used the same mic on each pack and the same channel on the camera with the same settings. So it has to be levels, right?

Where do your park your levels when running straight into camera? Or, how do you go about testing to find the right combination? For such common equipment, there's not a lot of info out there on this. The manual isn't much help either.
 
On the transmitter - its rare for the non padded input level to be any use for anything other than quiet speaking, but if the TX sensitivity is the same and the RX AF out is the same then it should be identical - swapping the mics and swapping the receivers might tie down which unit is misbehaving.
 
To locate where there is a difference do the following:

- Identify a TX/RX/microphone set as A and the other as B.
- Run your test with each set into input 1 on the camera. Note results
- Swap microphones. Run the test.
- Put the microphones back to their original set and swap transmitters. Run the test.
- Repeat for the receivers.

The normal setup for a mic/transmitter sensitivity setting is to run a test by placing the mic where it will be on the talent (on yourself) and then talk/shout (depending on scene) and set the sensitivity to a level that does not light up the peak LED. Normally, when using a mixer, the mixer and camera are calibrated using a tone generated from the mixer. But in your case, with the receiver going into the camera, set the AF OUT to 0db. Run the test again and observe the meters on the camera. Set the levels to not clip or leave some headroom. If you find the gain adjustment very high or low, you may need to adjust the AF OUT on the RX to compensate for the camera.

Some camera level meters are piss-poor, leaving you wonder what is a proper level coming into the camera. Even the manuals leave you wondering.
 
There’s no true “set it and forget it” formula here, because proper gain staging depends on the individual wearing the mic. Proper gain staging is how you keep everything in line. Lavs can also have differing output levels based on age/condition, manufacturing variance, etc.

On the transmitter, ideally with the lav on the talent and with them speaking at performance level, adjust the SENSITIVITY so that the level meter on the transmitter averages around 70% full. Sudden peaks may occasionally trip the AF Peak LED, but as long as the sound isn’t actually clipped this is perfectly okay.

With the transmitter set, start with the receiver’s AF OUT at 0dB and your camera’s input at MIC level (do not turn on phantom power). If you’re having to add too much gain in the camera and thus adding noise from the camera’s pre-amps, then try bumping the RX’s AF Out to +6dB. If it’s too hot coming into the camera, drop the AF Out as needed.

Once that’s done, you’ll at least have an AF Out and camera input setting that can be recreated as a solid starting point, but you’ll always want to check the TX’s sensitivity setting for each different person and adjust as needed.
 
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Sorry that it's taken me so long to respond. I thought I was heading into a slow couple of days but things got unexpectedly hectic with a team edit that slipped in scope and stayed that way for almost two weeks. Good for my wallet, bad for my forum presence.

Anyway, the answers in this post really helped me out. Thank you all! To diagnose the issue, I decided to use Alex's excellent step-by-step instructions as a starting point and then move onto Paul H and Paul Lears' if that didn't resolve. But I do believe that it has. I just did a test, and... no clipping! Using the mid-way point on the camera dial ("5" out of a possible 10), I did end shifting the TX and RX levels quite a bit on both sets. For example:

Initial Settings
Transmitter -12db
Receiver -18db

New settings
Transmitter -24db
Receiver -27db

I'm convinced that the levels were peaking within my transmitter and this seems to have solved it. So, again, thank you. I've been working with this equipment for years but have never fully grasped these settings. I think a sound guy on my last short may have boosted the levels. He was running into a mixer, and the talent was extremely quiet and soft-spoken.

A follow up question: when I'm getting an audio level from talent, I'm better off adjusting the sensitivity in the receiver than in-camera, correct? With the goal being to keep the in-camera gain low.
 
Typically, it is best to set the destination's audio input to 'unity' gain and adjust the receiver for a ballpark level. If the cam does not have pro-audio inputs (XLRs) all bets are off.
 
Rick R said:
Typically, it is best to set the destination's audio input to 'unity' gain and adjust the receiver for a ballpark level. If the cam does not have pro-audio inputs (XLRs) all bets are off.
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Cameras typically have a unified gain structure (one dial to rule them all) and, on a 0-10 dial, 5 is usually marked with a carrot for “unity”. So, in that, the OP was in the right neighborhood.

QuickHitRecord, looks like you set your transmitter sensitivity about in the neighborhood that I would expect it to be in. Depending on the lav I use (and how loud the talent is), I’m usually in the -24dB to -27dB range. For your receiver vs. the camera, is your C70 set to MIC or LINE input level? Dropping your AF Out on the RX that far seems unusual. If you’re at MIC level in and having to drop to -27dB, I’d switch to LINE and go back to 0dB AF Out. Adjust from there as needed.

QuickHitRecord said:
A follow up question: when I'm getting an audio level from talent, I'm better off adjusting the sensitivity in the receiver than in-camera, correct? With the goal being to keep the in-camera gain low.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Check everything, every time. Start with the transmitter and make sure sensitivity is set appropriately for that individual person’s voice. Then, if you need to make slight adjustments downstream, do so. I find that, once I have figured out the right gain structure on that system as it pertains to feeding a camera, as long as it’s always feeding the same camera, AF Out and camera input gain settings stay pretty constant. That doesn’t mean I don’t double-check them every time, but I do find there to be consistency. I don’t use a G3 for talent, but as a wireless camera hop from my bag to which ever camera of the day I happen to be feeding.
 
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QuickHitRecord said:
It's currently set to MIC. I'll try setting it to GAIN. Thanks!
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You mean LINE?

I just glanced at the C70 manual. Something else to check on is your MIC input trimming, which can be set from -12dB to +12dB. (Menu > Audio Setup > Input # Mic Trimming). See that you’re at least starting off at 0dB, and you might dropping it to -12dB.

The tricky part of the G3/G4 ew100 systems is that the receivers, which Sennheiser claim the ability for line-level out, really only do miic-level well, and a very weak, consumer-level line output when AF Out is all the way up. So there’s also the question of which kind of line level the recording device is wired to handle: consumer -10dB or professional +4dB? The C70 specs say +4dB. That said, you may find line-level a bit anemic between your G3 receiver and the camera. “5” on the dial is their unity setting, so start there and play with input trimming at mic level and see if that doesn’t help. I generally try to keep my receiver’s AF Out at 0dB as a starting point, which basically means no boost or cut from the incoming signal.
 
Alex H. said:
You mean LINE?
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Sorry, yes, I meant LINE.

Alex H. said:
I just glanced at the C70 manual. Something else to check on is your MIC input trimming, which can be set from -12dB to +12dB. (Menu > Audio Setup > Input # Mic Trimming). See that you’re at least starting off at 0dB, and you might dropping it to -12dB.
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Thanks for peeking at the manual. I checked and it's currently set at 0db. I did a quick test dropping it to -12db, and raising the Rx AF Out from -24 to -12. It sounds like there may be an improvement to the noise floor versus the un-trimmed camera and -24db Rx.

Alex H. said:
The tricky part of the G3/G4 ew100 systems is that the receivers, which Sennheiser claim the ability for line-level out, really only do miic-level well, and a very weak, consumer-level line output when AF Out is all the way up. So there’s also the question of which kind of line level the recording device is wired to handle: consumer -10dB or professional +4dB? The C70 specs say +4dB. That said, you may find line-level a bit anemic between your G3 receiver and the camera. “5” on the dial is their unity setting, so start there and play with input trimming at mic level and see if that doesn’t help. I generally try to keep my receiver’s AF Out at 0dB as a starting point, which basically means no boost or cut from the incoming signal.
Click to expand...

Your suspicions are correct. I can get a signal using LINE but even if I boost the AF Out on the receiver to +12db, my levels are still well below where I think I'd want them to be. So it seems like MIC is the way to go.
 
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