Sending the fs700 to sony for upgrade

[freshTEA]

If it was possible to do with RAW, then Sony would be doing it already. Obviously you can't do correct downsampling in RAW. It needs to be a video format

That might be true but there is a lot sony can do but they are not, but as I said im to unexperienced in this so you might be right in the matter.

And honestly you made milan O's comment into something different than what it was... He didnt actually say "sony bad" what he said is true wheter you like it or not, one can understand sony choices in most ot the things, but you can also wish for them to let CD unleash their true power. Nothing negative about that. If you choose to criticise other comments you should atleast look over you own...

 

[freshTEA]

I hope you're right freshTEA, I'd love it if CD could get this to work. They've been really professional in the way they've kept us updated. I just hope that Sony let them make the best of their recorder. As I've understood the 7Q is a much more capable recorder than Sony's bulky piece, it would be a shame if it couldn't be used in the best way possible just because of Sony's policies.

Ah, so you have a 5D mark III, that's nice. Have you tried shooting with the new Magic Lantern mode yet? I've been thinking about getting one, but mostly for stills actually. I have a 7D and a GH2 now, but could find some use for a GH3 for video. But there are many things I'd like to buy, but can't afford them all at once. The BM Pocket Camera would've been great, if the crop factor wasn't the way it is. But for now my main priority is the FS700 and what to do with it in the future, since I'm about to buy a steadicam system where Sony's own recorder will be impossible to use.

Have i tried? Yes sir I have, but have I succeded? No sir
the thing is this, i bought a 128gb komputerbay x1000 to use it for this purpose cause its extremly cheap in comparison to other brands, lets just say is was cheap for a purpose it stayed Btween 70-80MB/s which is to low. So i have sent it back for a new one. Ill keep u posted

 

[Milan O.]

Sony bad. They let CD design much cheaper recorder by sharing their propriety RAW with CD, but according to you, that is bad Sony policy. Dude, why don't you just sell your FS700 and buy much cheaper 4K black magic camera? I asked you this before but you continue to post same crap about bad Sony "policies".

And still I wasn't talking to you. Are you the kind of person that always has to say something even though the one you're talking to doesn't care what you're saying? It's not like you're making me change my mind, you just make yourself look a bit "special". And yes, I think Sony's policy is bad in this case an even more so after hearing that they charged freshTEA the shipping cost and at the same time claim that it's supposed to be included in the upgrade price. You, on the other hand, seem to have the opinion that they act in a professional way. You are entitled to have that opinion, and as I said before, you won't se me crying like a little baby for you having it. What is fascinating is that you can't let other people have their own opinion. So what is your problem?

 

[Milan O.]

Have i tried? Yes sir I have, but have I succeded? No sir
the thing is this, i bought a 128gb komputerbay x1000 to use it for this purpose cause its extremly cheap in comparison to other brands, lets just say is was cheap for a purpose it stayed Btween 70-80MB/s which is to low. So i have sent it back for a new one. Ill keep u posted

I see. Hopefully it'll work out for the best this time.
Yes, please let me know how it turns out.

About evilthought, he/she seems to be a typical internet bully. A person who doesn't dare to say his/her opinion in real life, so when he/she has the chance to do it anonymously it becomes compulsive. It's actually quite sad.

 

[evilthought]

And still I wasn't talking to you. Are you the kind of person that always has to say something even though the one you're talking to doesn't care what you're saying? It's not like you're making me change my mind, you just make yourself look a bit "special". And yes, I think Sony's policy is bad in this case an even more so after hearing that they charged freshTEA the shipping cost and at the same time claim that it's supposed to be included in the upgrade price. You, on the other hand, seem to have the opinion that they act in a professional way. You are entitled to have that opinion, and as I said before, you won't se me crying like a little baby for you having it. What is fascinating is that you can't let other people have their own opinion. So what is your problem?

First, they DID NOT charge him shipping fees. Read the posts carefully. He is unhappy that his free shipping isn't coming fast enough. Second, you changed the topic. You were ranting about Sony policy where they allowed a third party to develop a cheaper recorder by sharing the format for their proprietary RAW stream. If you think that is such a bad policy and Sony should have stuck with selling you their own recorder (more money for them), why don't you put your FS700 on ebay? I am pretty sure you will get well over $6,000 (if not more) for it. Is there some special masochist reason that you insist living miserably unhappy with your FS700?

 

[evilthought]

That might be true but there is a lot sony can do but they are not, but as I said im to unexperienced in this so you might be right in the matter.

And honestly you made milan O's comment into something different than what it was... He didnt actually say "sony bad" what he said is true wheter you like it or not, one can understand sony choices in most ot the things, but you can also wish for them to let CD unleash their true power. Nothing negative about that. If you choose to criticise other comments you should atleast look over you own...

I think this topic was discussed in the other other thread. The RAW data cannot be downsampled from 4K raw to 2K RAW.

From http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cinefor...ownsample-raw-camera-without-demosaicing.html

The reason is that each of the Bayer pixel locations, although identified by convention as R, G, or B sites, are not pure in their color. In other words, each cell site has color bleeds that must be extracted through a demosaic algorithm. Color bleeds exist because of impure color masks at each pixel location. The color bleeding is not a problem by the way, instead it is a characteristic. But it requires a DeBayer (demosaic) filter to extract color purities from the individual cell sites. But of course when you perform a demosaic you create R, G, and B values at each pixel location. If you do NOT perform a demosaic, and just perform a more traditional down-res you get color aliasing that is visually objectionable.

That's probably the reason why we are seeing lower quality 2K RAW anyway from FS700 ..

But do we really need 2K raw when CD is giving 10/12 bit 1080p video downsampled from 4K raw?

 

[freshTEA]

evilthought
Well actually they did try to charge me for the shipping, they sent me an invoice of 754€ instead of 500, but then I wrote back in fury telling them that 500€ is with shipping included. They the next day email me an said they could let it go this one time out of good will.

your prob right, I am too inexperienced in the matter. I can only speak for myself but I'm in no great need of 2k raw, that is not to say that the next guy isnt but yeah from my part ill be really happy with the 1080p 10 or 12 bit, and be able to capture 4k if needed. Hopefully down the line we can see 4k in 60p from the 7Q but that might be pushing it, I dont know if the 7Q has that much processing power..
I guess we will have to wait and see what the future beholds.

 

[Milan O.]

First, they DID NOT charge him shipping fees. Read the posts carefully. He is unhappy that his free shipping isn't coming fast enough. Second, you changed the topic. You were ranting about Sony policy where they allowed a third party to develop a cheaper recorder by sharing the format for their proprietary RAW stream. If you think that is such a bad policy and Sony should have stuck with selling you their own recorder (more money for them), why don't you put your FS700 on ebay? I am pretty sure you will get well over $6,000 (if not more) for it. Is there some special masochist reason that you insist living miserably unhappy with your FS700?

There's apparently something seriously wrong with you evilthought. Yes, they did charge him, and then he had to complain, and then they said they would pay the shipping as an act of goodwill. Maybe you should read the posts more carefully? You see, I think it's unprofessional to charge customers additional costs without letting them now the costs in advance. A customer shouldn't have to complain about things like these to avoid the cost that wasn't advertised, and furthermore the customer shouldn't hear that it's an act of goodwill that they're doing what they are supposed to do in the first place. I'd rather say it's really bad customer service to make it sound like they're doing him a favor, when they're only doing what they're supposed to do in that case.

I feel the same way for talking about a firmware upgrade which later turns out to be a hardware upgrade, as I've mentioned before but somehow you have difficulties getting that into your head. I also think that it is ridiculous that their recorder is huge when apparently CD can make a much smaller one which is capable of doing the same thing. I don't see any purpose in promising a recorder which can't be used practically. So yes, this is my opinion and you just have to suck it up. You can't stop me having it. Get over it and harass someone else with your boring comments, or get a life.

And as to why I haven't sold my camera yet is that I'm using it for work at the moment. I was actually out shooting two hours today and earned 420 dollars with the camera. That doesn't mean that I think Sony's way to handle this is any better. Those are two separate things, which apparently your simple mind can't grasp. When did it become your problem what I do with my camera? It's mine, I've bought it and I had to wait four months after I made the payment to receive it, just because Sony didn't deliver the camera to the store, a thing I've already mentioned before.
I don't have time to buy cameras every other day or lose money buying things and selling them a couple of months later, that's not the way I do business. Maybe you're just stupid and not aware of the fact that a used camera can't be sold for the same price as a new one, and if you have accessories you've bought for the camera you'll have to sell those also. That's why I'm not selling it directly, because it means that I would probably lose more than 2000 dollars on things that are actually as good as new (since I'm very careful with my equipment). Then it's better to use them for a while longer and get some of the money back.

It gets more and more obvious that you must be a Sony employee with some bad case of too strong emotions for your company. If you're so bothered with me speaking my opinion, then I must ask you: Is there some special masochist reason that you insist living miserably unhappy reading my posts?
If you want to solve this problem (because my opinion seems to be a huge problem for you, for some mysterious reason) you can either give me 2000 dollars and I will sell my camera, or you can buy my FS700 with accessories for the same price that I bought it, and the matter is solved. If not, shut up, since you're only making an idiot out of yourself.

 

[evilthought]

There's apparently something seriously wrong with you evilthought. Yes, they did charge him, and then he had to complain, and then they said they would pay the shipping as an act of goodwill.

They did not charge him for the shipping fee. They sent him invoice with the shipping fee, which they removed when he complained. Once again that is totally irrelevant to your whining that I replied to: which was about bad Sony policy of sharing their proprietary RAW format with CD. When CD signed up for that, they probably signed an agreement at that time about not doing 4K raw. Would you be happier if there was no CD option at all?

 

[Milan O.]

They did not charge him for the shipping fee. They sent him invoice with the shipping fee, which they removed when he complained. Once again that is totally irrelevant to your whining that I replied to: which was about bad Sony policy of sharing their proprietary RAW format with CD. When CD signed up for that, they probably signed an agreement at that time about not doing 4K raw. Would you be happier if there was no CD option at all?

Sending an invoice and charging someone is much the same thing. If he hadn't complained he'd have to pay. I'm sure even you'd have to agree on this, but I won't be surprised if you don't. Apparently you think it's good if companies send invoices to their customers with fees they haven't mentioned beforehand, and that it certainly is professional when that company claim they're acting in goodwill when they change their mind about the fee they have no right to charge. If you ask me, I'm the first one to tell you that I think that you're entitled to have that opinion. I won't share your opinion, but I wouldn't mind you having it, because I have nothing to do with it. So, if you'd write a post where you say "Hey, I almost got f****d by Sony, they sent me an invoice where they wanted me to pay the shipping charges also, but then I called them and they where so sweet and said that in an act of goodwill, they'll pay the shipping costs that they're supposed to pay anyway. What a great bunch, I love 'em!" I wouldn't give a s**t, because if that's what you love, then go ahead, it doesn't bother me. But, for some reason, you just can't stand someone having a different opinion than yours, even though they're not talking to you, and that's really strange.

So, which is it going to be? Are you giving me 2000 dollars so that I can sell my camera, or are you buying mine with the accessories for the price I bought them? It seems like your avoiding the subject Sony lover!

Since you seem to be an incredibly "special" person I'll give it a last try, and let's see if you can understand what this is all about. First of all, nothing of this is irrelevant since it clearly shows that Sony don't care much about their customers. I will now rewrite the scenario, in a way that even your "special" mind might understand. I have little hope, but at least I tried...

This is what Evilthought thinks is great:
Evilthought is a truck driver and owns a small carrier business. One day Evilthought finds out that Volvo will release a new truck, a truck that will make his work easier in many ways, a very good truck! But the greatest thing of all is that Volvo say that they'll release a software update for the engine, which he can do by himself, and develop a sort of truck trailer that, when attached to the truck, will make it run on water! Evilthought thinks this sounds like really great news! So he orders a truck and pays it in advance. Then it turns out that Volvo can't deliver the truck he's already paid for and he waits for four months to receive it. Evilthought doesn't mind, he thinks that is great! He's so happy that he paid for something he couldn't use for several months, even though Volvo said they will start shipping the truck when he paid for it. He just loves the people at Volvo, for no apparent reason! That's the way he is!

At the same time Volvo announces another truck, which is slightly more expensive and get's delivered to their customers the month after it's announced.

Some months pass and suddenly Volvo announce that the software upgrade isn't a software upgrade. Evilthought will actually have to send his truck abroad for some hardware replacements, which will make it impossible for him to use the truck for work during that time. Evilthought is thrilled by the idea! He actually prefers harassing people on the Internet rather than working and making money. He also finds out that the truck trailer that is supposed to make his truck run on water is so big, that it's unusable. His truck won't fit on the streets if he attaches that truck trailer! It turns out that if Evilthought had bought the later Volvo truck, the new truck trailer would actually be usable, and the price difference wouldn't be so big since he doesn't have to buy a huge set of extra wheels for the trailer truck, if used with the new model. The same set of wheels that make the trailer truck so huge it can't be used with his truck.

But that doesn't bother Evilthought since at the same time another company, Shelby American, makes an announcement that they will make a much smaller trailer truck, with other great features for Evilthought's carrier company, which will work great with Evilthought's Volvo truck. It can actually also make Evilthought's truck run on water, but Volvo doesn't allow Shelby American to enable that feature, so instead it'll have to run on 50 % water and 50 % diesel. Evilthought doesn't mind. He's actually thrilled by the idea that one of the reasons for which he bought the truck couldn't be implemented practically if he buys the Volvo trailer truck, since he won't be able to drive it on the streets. He could make his truck run on water in the garage with it, and Evilthought thinks that's good enough for him since, he claims, that the guys at Volvo are a sweet bunch for letting Shelby American build a smaller trailer truck which makes his truck run on 50 % water and 50 % diesel, which is 50 % less than what they claimed would be possible. Evilthought doesn't mind, he is so in love with the people at Volvo that he is forever grateful that they didn't deliver what they advertised. That's the kind of guy he is, Evilthought is a happy camper!

You see Evilthought, I'm not like you. I get irritated if someone promises something that they don't live up to. You might think that Sony did just that by making their bulky, unusable recorder. I don't. You'll just have to live with it. Actually, I don't mind at all that you love Sony and that you're eternally grateful to them for making a bulky recorder and sharing their proprietary raw format with CD to enable 2K, not great quality, raw recording on the 7Q.
What I don't get, still, is why you care so much about what I think. You don't even know me! :-Laugh(DBG):

So, would I be happier if there was no CD option at all? No. But I would be happier if Sony's recorder was actually usable which means it'd have to be about the same size as the 7Q. I'd even pay the ridiculous price for it. But now they just let us choose between an expensive, bulky, unusable recorder or a great, small, less expensive recorder which they won't let record 4K in higher frame rates than 30 fps. You love it, I don't. Now, please get a life, I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

 

[ksteiger]

When did this forum turn into Facebook style nastiness?
Let's keep it civil people.

 

[Milan O.]

When did this forum turn into Facebook style nastiness?
Let's keep it civil people.

Ken, I agree with you but this Evilthought person just keeps nagging about that people should sell their cameras if they think Sony isn't handling this well, instead of trying to understand why some customers are dissatisfied with the current state. It's not like anyone here nags at him/her about buying more FS700 cameras, if he/she loves them so much. But that's sadly the way he/she talks to other people, who has not even spoken to him/her but are trying to have a conversation with others.

Where I'm from that sort of behaviour is considered to be very rude.

 

[Gene Sung]

Milan, I think the best thing to do is to just ignore Evilthought. The more you write in anger, the more he gets off. Then he is just living in your head, rent free.

Can you imagine working with Evil on a production? Whew... that would be no fun.

 

[evilthought]

That was a bit too long. If you keep your responses short, I will bother to read it.

Try again

Sending an invoice and charging someone is much the same thing. If he hadn't complained he'd have to pay. I'm sure even you'd have to agree on this, but I won't be surprised if you don't. Apparently you think it's good if companies send invoices to their customers with fees they haven't mentioned beforehand, and that it certainly is professional when that company claim they're acting in goodwill when they change their mind about the fee they have no right to charge. If you ask me, I'm the first one to tell you that I think that you're entitled to have that opinion. I won't share your opinion, but I wouldn't mind you having it, because I have nothing to do with it. So, if you'd write a post where you say "Hey, I almost got f****d by Sony, they sent me an invoice where they wanted me to pay the shipping charges also, but then I called them and they where so sweet and said that in an act of goodwill, they'll pay the shipping costs that they're supposed to pay anyway. What a great bunch, I love 'em!" I wouldn't give a s**t, because if that's what you love, then go ahead, it doesn't bother me. But, for some reason, you just can't stand someone having a different opinion than yours, even though they're not talking to you, and that's really strange.

So, which is it going to be? Are you giving me 2000 dollars so that I can sell my camera, or are you buying mine with the accessories for the price I bought them? It seems like your avoiding the subject Sony lover!

Since you seem to be an incredibly "special" person I'll give it a last try, and let's see if you can understand what this is all about. First of all, nothing of this is irrelevant since it clearly shows that Sony don't care much about their customers. I will now rewrite the scenario, in a way that even your "special" mind might understand. I have little hope, but at least I tried...

This is what Evilthought thinks is great:
Evilthought is a truck driver and owns a small carrier business. One day Evilthought finds out that Volvo will release a new truck, a truck that will make his work easier in many ways, a very good truck! But the greatest thing of all is that Volvo say that they'll release a software update for the engine, which he can do by himself, and develop a sort of truck trailer that, when attached to the truck, will make it run on water! Evilthought thinks this sounds like really great news! So he orders a truck and pays it in advance. Then it turns out that Volvo can't deliver the truck he's already paid for and he waits for four months to receive it. Evilthought doesn't mind, he thinks that is great! He's so happy that he paid for something he couldn't use for several months, even though Volvo said they will start shipping the truck when he paid for it. He just loves the people at Volvo, for no apparent reason! That's the way he is!

At the same time Volvo announces another truck, which is slightly more expensive and get's delivered to their customers the month after it's announced.

Some months pass and suddenly Volvo announce that the software upgrade isn't a software upgrade. Evilthought will actually have to send his truck abroad for some hardware replacements, which will make it impossible for him to use the truck for work during that time. Evilthought is thrilled by the idea! He actually prefers harassing people on the Internet rather than working and making money. He also finds out that the truck trailer that is supposed to make his truck run on water is so big, that it's unusable. His truck won't fit on the streets if he attaches that truck trailer! It turns out that if Evilthought had bought the later Volvo truck, the new truck trailer would actually be usable, and the price difference wouldn't be so big since he doesn't have to buy a huge set of extra wheels for the trailer truck, if used with the new model. The same set of wheels that make the trailer truck so huge it can't be used with his truck.

But that doesn't bother Evilthought since at the same time another company, Shelby American, makes an announcement that they will make a much smaller trailer truck, with other great features for Evilthought's carrier company, which will work great with Evilthought's Volvo truck. It can actually also make Evilthought's truck run on water, but Volvo doesn't allow Shelby American to enable that feature, so instead it'll have to run on 50 % water and 50 % diesel. Evilthought doesn't mind. He's actually thrilled by the idea that one of the reasons for which he bought the truck couldn't be implemented practically if he buys the Volvo trailer truck, since he won't be able to drive it on the streets. He could make his truck run on water in the garage with it, and Evilthought thinks that's good enough for him since, he claims, that the guys at Volvo are a sweet bunch for letting Shelby American build a smaller trailer truck which makes his truck run on 50 % water and 50 % diesel, which is 50 % less than what they claimed would be possible. Evilthought doesn't mind, he is so in love with the people at Volvo that he is forever grateful that they didn't deliver what they advertised. That's the kind of guy he is, Evilthought is a happy camper!

You see Evilthought, I'm not like you. I get irritated if someone promises something that they don't live up to. You might think that Sony did just that by making their bulky, unusable recorder. I don't. You'll just have to live with it. Actually, I don't mind at all that you love Sony and that you're eternally grateful to them for making a bulky recorder and sharing their proprietary raw format with CD to enable 2K, not great quality, raw recording on the 7Q.
What I don't get, still, is why you care so much about what I think. You don't even know me! :-Laugh(DBG):

So, would I be happier if there was no CD option at all? No. But I would be happier if Sony's recorder was actually usable which means it'd have to be about the same size as the 7Q. I'd even pay the ridiculous price for it. But now they just let us choose between an expensive, bulky, unusable recorder or a great, small, less expensive recorder which they won't let record 4K in higher frame rates than 30 fps. You love it, I don't. Now, please get a life, I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

 

[paolo.negro]

Guys could you continue your productive debate concerning sony customers care in a new tread please? This is supposed to be more about 4K upgrade, I think people interested in this topic don't appreciate yours quarrels.
Best

 

[Michael Erlewine]

Sent mine to Teaneck, New Jersey. Person in charge of contacting me was Amy. I received an email, filled out the form, marked that it was a "Priority Repair" and sent it off.

I had called this repair center some months before, talked to someone who told me to ship the camera, sent me a form, but then later recanted and said it was a mistake. They did not yet have the parts. The camera was sent back to me.

I did have to remind the repair center that I had gone through all of this before, at their request and that I should not be lost in the shuffle or put at the back of the list. A call to them reminded them of my situation and I get the email a few days later.

 

[paolo.negro]

I've done a phone call to the prime support on wednesday, thursday the DHL pick it up, and friday was in the european sony repair center (UK). They told me it will be back in 5 working days (according to sony prime support policy).
I let you know how long does it take without "priority"
Best

 

[timmytimetravel]

In oz ....

Sony claimed it was a software only upgrade.


clearing it up with the tech. They need to software upgrade the FPGA. They have to take the camera apart to get to it which takes around 3 hours. I saw on this thread someone said they were waiting on parts.... There are none.


They do however need a special hardware jig to do the software upgrade on the fpga.


so. It will only take them a few days depending on other work at the time!


im back in oz later this week, so should be slog2 by the end of next week!

 

[paulcurtis]

In oz ....

Sony claimed it was a software only upgrade.
clearing it up with the tech. They need to software upgrade the FPGA. They have to take the camera apart to get to it which takes around 3 hours. I saw on this thread someone said they were waiting on parts.... There are none.
They do however need a special hardware jig to do the software upgrade on the fpga.
so. It will only take them a few days depending on other work at the time!
im back in oz later this week, so should be slog2 by the end of next week!

First i heard that. Seem odd because Sony got a lot of bad press for this idea that there's a hardware upgrade when they said software originally. If it's a software update then why didn't Sony clarify that at the beginning and save negative PR about the whole thing. I don't think there would have been any fuss about the upgrade if it was that simple...

cheers
Paul

 

[evilthought]

First i heard that. Seem odd because Sony got a lot of bad press for this idea that there's a hardware upgrade when they said software originally. If it's a software update then why didn't Sony clarify that at the beginning and save negative PR about the whole thing. I don't think there would have been any fuss about the upgrade if it was that simple...
Paul

If it's software upgrade tp FPGA, then as far as user is concerned, it's hardware upgrade, as they need to take apart the camera.