Sending TC wirelessly via Sennheiser G3 or 4

L

lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com

Well-known member
I'm wondering if it is possible to send wireless TC over the
Sennheiser G4 TX and RX? This is a matter of using 1/8" to BNC adapter.

I have a special application on the Varicam 35 and HS in which it cannot record free run TC when using vfr from 59-240 fps. The Sound Devices 7 series, when set to "Ext-cont" will auto start and stop the recording and has identical rec run TC on the Sub recorder on the VC. VFR at 240 fps is about 8x faster than 29.97 normal frame rate..it is impossible to free run TC at 240 fps. Fully tested OK on BNC cable but there are times where I can't run 50 ft long BNC from the cam to sound recorder and the wireless tc TX&TX is the only physical mean to get idental TC on both cam and untethered sound recorder. The sound quality from VC is OK but quality from the SD recorders are night and day difference in dynamic range. Also useful for situation whereI can't run long XLR cables and can place the SD702T hundred of feet away and get accurate TC for syncing in post. I can easily record all day on the SD702T, but syncing up to the footage will take weeks to months to match up. TC is essential. Can't slate this when outside in the wild.
 
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I would give it a shot, it should work. The BNC is a slight worry since (at least for video and word clock) it is impedance sensitive so you might need an adapter. But I would give it a shot and see. You probably need to wire up the plug specifically so it is going in line level. On the Lectrosonics line comes in on different pins from mic level.
 
Noiz2 said:
it should work. You probably need to wire up the plug specifically so it is going in line level.
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Yes, it should work, I've sent LTC though a G2/3 a few times
The 'Ring' terminal on the G series SK100 transmitters input plug is for line level. The plug's 'Tip' and 'Sleeve' are both tied to ground/shield. An EK100 portable receiver (AF) output will likely need to be set close to the max, which is around -10dB nominal.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
...but syncing up to the footage will take weeks to months to match up. TC is essential. Can't slate this when outside in the wild.
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Good advice here on doing what you are trying to do, but I'm curious, what editing software is being used to edit this footage? I use FCP X and Resolve and the auto sync features now are so good
they have almost made TC superfluous, I can take it or leave it in most cases. I'm recording hours of interviews using the Fujifilm XT-3 and the Tascam DR-10Ls and it's a breeze.
You take a given piece of audio your SD mixer/recorder and a piece of video from your Varicam and you just hit sync, it's pretty easy. Why would it take weeks to months to match up?
Is it because you cannot record a scratch track on the Varicam? If you have a scratch audio track on your Varicam, the syncing takes just a few seconds.
 
I record special wilderness and wildlife in which I need to have matching sound of various animals landing, fighting, foraging, etc.. to the camera. I spend about 10-12 hours per day on location average. I set about 5-6 of these self-contained SD702T and the affordable BP-4029 with the Rycote WSK4 within couple of football fields wide. You'll never be able to predict where these wild animal go. And would hope that they're close to the hidden shotgun mic 50 ft away. It's very hard for any NLE to sync up a particular sound Varicam couldn't do free run tc in VFR mode. Obviously can't continuously rolling the Varicam at high frame rate non-stop from sunrise to sunset. The on-cam mic is too far from the subject for a matching scratch track. I need all of the authentic natural real sound I can get. FCP X auto sync will not know how to match the on-cam mic positioned 500 ft away from the actual shoot location with the semi-hidden sound recorder. Ambient and nature sound are virtually impossible to auto sync. Human dialogue, yes. And it's impractical to run 500-800 ft of XLR cables all over the wilderness site. Animal rights group will not allow it because you're disturbing the site. I'd scare away the animals and they'll never come back for many days or to it until I leave.

Another more urban situation is soccer field. It's very time consuming and expensive to run XLR cables all over the field. I mean taping and securing the cables down are already a pain in the **s. These self-contained TC recorders are a workaround of running long audio cables. I'd put 3-4 of these at every corners. I do not continuously record 240 fps on the Varicam. The data is massive and not needed. If I record everything continuously on the VC, I'd never need TC in the first place. I'd simply sync up the beginning of the start of an event and be done with it.
 
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I found a more elegant solution to untethered TC recording: Timecodesystems' Ultra Sync One. It cheaper than the Senn G4 set and seems to be better suited for wireless TC over 100m. I noticed w/ the Senn G3-G4 will wear down over time after lots of field uses. The non-removable rubber antenna on the TX & RX wears down the fastest. I have several G3s' antenna already shredded and bent.
 
And you just demonstrated one point I try to drive into students, the right question is more important than the right answer. You asked if you could send TC over a G3 system, and you got some "right" answers. But the question you wanted answered was how to get sync TC to a bunch of devices wirelessly, so the right answerers were for the wrong question.

If you had asked the "right" question folks would have mentioned some of the many solutions that exist for doing that and you could have skipped over almost all of the thread.

It's often hard to ask the right question because we all come at problems with some preconceived limitations that often are not real limitations.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
I found a more elegant solution to untethered TC recording: Timecodesystems' Ultra Sync One. It cheaper than the Senn G4 set and seems to be better suited for wireless TC over 100m. I noticed w/ the Senn G3-G4 will wear down over time after lots of field uses. The non-removable rubber antenna on the TX & RX wears down the fastest. I have several G3s' antenna already shredded and bent.
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Yes, lock boxes are much lower cost than a bunch of Sennheiser G series receivers.

"I have several G3s' antenna already shredded and bent"
- The G series replacement antennas are generally less than $10 in the US and take about ten minutes to replace... Four Torx head screws and one easy-accessible solder joint.
BTW, a bent antenna has minimal effect on RF as long as it is not broken or touching something conductive.. sweaty bare skin for instance.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
I found a more elegant solution to untethered TC recording: Timecodesystems' Ultra Sync One. It cheaper than the Senn G4 set and seems to be better suited for wireless TC over 100m. I noticed w/ the Senn G3-G4 will wear down over time after lots of field uses. The non-removable rubber antenna on the TX & RX wears down the fastest. I have several G3s' antenna already shredded and bent.
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Great wireless systems, especially for the money, with an Achilles heel. And you’ve found it.

I have quite a few G3 ew112 systems and G4 ew512 systems, and I’ve had them all modded with SMA whip antennae. This makes a HUGE difference in both range and stability. All my receivers are modded. The G4s are used on talent or for client monitoring and the G3s are used for cam hops. The G3 TX for my bag, for the camera hop, is the only TX I’ve had modded so far. Eventually, I may deal with all my TXs.

If you have any of these systems, I highly recommend the mod.

That said, I absolutely second Scott’s comment:

Noiz2 said:
... the right question is more important than the right answer.
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After a 20 min sending continuous TC, it worked as a test. Then used the G3 for regular audio for 2 days. All of the sudden the receiver would not receive anymore. The green RF just would not function. I tried to remove batteries, rescan all frequencies and nothing. The TX still appears to be OK by showing movement. But nothing on RX. I had this for 7 years. Light use. Not sure if sending TC caused the malfunction or the G3s are getting old. But it's making me worried that this solution is not going to last.
 
Stupid question, but any chance the mute switch on the TX got bumped? Those are quite easy to hit by accident, and even a light brush can be enough to cut signal flow.
 
If there is no RF at the receiver, I would assume this has nothing to do with the TC. I would re-check the usual possible causes like verifying the Tx and Rx channel frequency are the same, extraneous RF interference, (try another frequency), or as Alex stated, an engaged mute switch.. btw, the G3 and G4 SK100 bodypack Tx have two mute modes, one will mute the audio signal only, leaving the RF signal intact, the other cuts the RF (and of course the audio). The mute switch can be disabled fairly easily in the Tx advanced menu or the whole Tx locked.
 
I verified the MUTE sw on the TX. It is set to unmute. Scanned new frequency blocks and manually entered the preset freq like I normally would. No luck. I noticed that if I leave the RX off for 12 hours, the next day it would intermittently work, but then the RF would turn and off after several minutes. Not sure what is going here but it whatever it is, it's not working after several minutes of being off for 12 hours. My other A1, G, B freq channel worked fine. Just this A block wouldn't work. I don't have another spare A block to try out to see if the TX is working. If only there's a way to factory reset the firmware on the RX. Seems like there's no way to do it.

Yesterday was recording dialogue just fine until later on the day the RX would not output any audio for unknown reason. Didn't change any setting or touch any thing. Just no RF out all of the sudden during the recording session. 1st time I experienced this. Perhaps this is the end of life for the Senn G3 RX... Repairing this may be more expensive than buying another used or get the G4 set. This G3 A freq set has served me for almost a decade.

Rick R said:
If there is no RF at the receiver, I would assume this has nothing to do with the TC. I would re-check the usual possible causes like verifying the Tx and Rx channel frequency are the same, extraneous RF interference, (try another frequency), or as Alex stated, an engaged mute switch.. btw, the G3 and G4 SK100 bodypack Tx have two mute modes, one will mute the audio signal only, leaving the RF signal intact, the other cuts the RF (and of course the audio). The mute switch can be disabled fairly easily in the Tx advanced menu or the whole Tx locked.
Click to expand...
 
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