Scarlet: 35mm Adapters are... here to stay.

Luis Caffesse said:
I have to be honest - and don't get me wrong... I have an adapter and I love the look of it.
I love the look of 35mm film depth of field.

But that's because my choices with my HPX170 are either 1/3" chips, or use the adapter.

But I really don't get the obssession with Depth of Field.
I mean, with a 1/3" camera - sure, because I don't always want EVERYTHING in focus....
but once you get into 2/3" territory, I find it totally liveable.

I mean, the Viper is a 2/3" chip camera - and it seems to look pretty good to most people.
:)

I'm actually debating (for the next year) between the S35 Scarlet, or getting two of the 2/3" Scarlets.
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Big difference between 2/3 and S35 imager. 2.0 on 2/3" is about 8.0 on S35. For me I find it way too much for narrative.
 
The 2 reasons why I want a red are 35mm DOF and REDCODE RAW. I wouldnt even want to deal with a relay lens and another 35mm adapter to use with 2/3" Scarlet. If I want to pay just $9000 to get a homemade Letus relay and 35mm adapter, I rather get the Varicam 2700 or I would've stick with my Hpx500.
 
Whats to stop Red from coming up with more "Brains?" I mean, that seems like the whole point with the modularity. Why couldn't they come up with a 2K fixed lens 35mm Brain for around the price of a DVX and just add it to the product line? Seems like they've set themselves up to create new Brains to adapt to and future markets. Shouldn't we be clamoring for more brains?
 
Luis Caffesse said:
I have to be honest - and don't get me wrong... I have an adapter and I love the look of it.
I love the look of 35mm film depth of field.

But that's because my choices with my HPX170 are either 1/3" chips, or use the adapter.

But I really don't get the obssession with Depth of Field.
I mean, with a 1/3" camera - sure, because I don't always want EVERYTHING in focus....
but once you get into 2/3" territory, I find it totally liveable.

I mean, the Viper is a 2/3" chip camera - and it seems to look pretty good to most people.
:)

I'm actually debating (for the next year) between the S35 Scarlet, or getting two of the 2/3" Scarlets.
Click to expand...

This is where I am at as well.

With my HPX500, and the nice Angenieux HD F2.0 wide angle lens on it, I have absolutely NO need for a 35mm adapter. Ever.

With the 2/3 Scarlet in a B4 mount, I can have the full servo zoom capabilities of that same Angenieux rather than messing with primes, along with a nice pleasing bokeh.

Makes perfect sense to me and is a much more flexible image acquisition system than a 35mm adapter and a set of primes.
 
2/3" or 35mm adaptor? It's an apples and oranges comparison. Different purposes altogether. For most narrative, music videos, commercial work, I'll take an EX1/Ultimate combo over any 2/3" camera on its own. For doc work, ENG, industrials, etc 2/3" rules.

But an adaptor on Scarlet makes no sense both financially and performance wise.
 
for me its not so much a question of depth of field, its more a sensitivity issue. If I can film at night with a 60 or 100 watt bulb without any noise I would pay a bit more :-) For me THAT is the main interest. So with a 1:1.2 glass or even lower I would be really intrigued. I just saw a film a red owning friend of mine made with his nikon night vision glass: you can film with almost no light and it looks stunning!
 
Tim Naylor said:
Nobody was using a merlin with a 35mm adaptor anyway. RED ONE exists and they're everywhere. The new RED's will be a reality. By the time they do come out, storage will increase to the point where Scarlet in its small form (CF cards, minimal accessories) can truly be as run and gun as any ENG camera. The form factor / weight will be considerably smaller than RED ONE. The body alone is almost a third the size. The interchangeable modularity of the design is brilliant - switchable chip sets, etc.

Once you're set up, in its cheapest configuration with S35 chip, rods, MB, FF, Tripod, etc, you'll be about 35G in. Which is about 5 G more than what I've spent getting a complete HVX / Adaptor set built. Yeah it's in the planning stages but it's not like Kinetta. As proved by RED ONE, they're for real in terms of announcing and delivering. To call it an illusion is illusory.

And that is a good deal.
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If you get the best of the best you're looking at 35K. Proprietary, etc.

And I guess if you have to pay full price/retail for the stuff.

A working, fully outfitted Scarlet S35 Kit shouldn't cost more than what Willis paid for his entire setup, though. That's about 18K or just a little more and Willis has really nice gear all around. Course, this is just opinion.

I suppose me saying 12k is with connections, as well. Say like, I won't be buying RED Bricks at all. I'll be using the heavy duty Swits that last longer.

As far as run and gun goes? A 35mm Adapter setup is NOT run n'gun if you think an outfitted Scarlet won't be. In fact, I could run n'gun a RED ONE on a barebones setup just as easy as a Letus Ultimate HPX170 setup. The only drawback being the wide range of light control between the two: RED ONE will need a mattebox and pristine filters.
 
drubynum said:
Shouldn't we be clamoring for more brains?
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And so begins the zombie plague of Night of the Scarlet Hunger! :zombie_smiley::zombie_smiley::zombie_smiley:

-Jeff

PS - Per Kholi's original question: If I get a Scarlet, it will be the S35 version, especially knowing now that I can (subject to change!) shoot 2k 1-60. From a workflow perspective, I'm more likely to shoot 2k 24p than 5k 24p anyway.

However, I think you will see 35mm adapters on 2/3 Scarlets, mostly from people who either a) have an adapter already they want to keep using, or b) people who buy gear in small, affordable chunks (like those who bought a DVX-100/a/b and then later got a 35mm adapter when they could afford it). Shooters who build their camera over time may be more likely to go 2/3", while those who buy in big chunks at once will go S35.
 
TimurCivan said:
I would LOVE to use some vintage lenses from the 30's or something like that on the S35 SCLT.
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check out the 45th anniversary edition of mary poppins when it comes out in jan. Disc 3 has a doc shot by myself, geoff risner, and kholi using pl mounted super baltars from the 40's and cooke s2/s3's on the red.
 
Jeff Koenig said:
PS - Per Kholi's original question: If I get a Scarlet, it will be the S35 version, especially knowing now that I can (subject to change!) shoot 2k 1-60. From a workflow perspective, I'm more likely to shoot 2k 24p than 5k 24p anyway.
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Keep in mind that shooting at 2k does not mean the image is downsampled, but rather the image is cropped to only use 40% of the sensor.

IE your 50mm becomes a 125mm (did I do the math right?).

Though all the specs/release dates/gender identity is subject to change, I figure it can't get worse than 60fps as a max framerate - it can only get better. I hope.
 
Matty_g said:
check out the 45th anniversary edition of mary poppins when it comes out in jan. Disc 3 has a doc shot by myself, geoff risner, and kholi using pl mounted super baltars from the 40's and cooke s2/s3's on the red.
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Hell yeah. That was my official "RED is it" job. LoL. Those Baltars were hardcore but you know me... Master Primes, please.
 
S35 + Nikon for me. I can re-use most of my existing gear (lenses, matte-box, follow-focus, rails, etc), so an entire package should cost less than $10K. I can easily save that much by the time the camera is ready to buy next summer. Besides, I don't think the wife and kids really wanted that vacation anyway.
 
think with the absolutes from Red it'll be 10K to start. Remember, as it sits it's just a brain without a breakout box. All the things to make it useable are sure to cost a good 3k or more. Then again who knows.
 
Prodigi Pictures said:
At first we were very timid and only shot scenes at 320. Then, we set the camera at 400 and could detect no grain on a 32" monitor.
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Your footage should be much cleaner than what you can see on the monitors out. They are doing a quick and dirty debayer on the fly so you can see that image.
a lot of the magic with the red is how you process the footage.
 
Although RED does tend to deliver the word "eventually" comes to mind. Scarlet was announced last year at NAB and we'll probably just be seeing an actual working unit by next NAB. Since the last show both Canon and Nikon have released DSLRs with pretty decent movie modes which are far from perfect but a pretty exciting step. In the same time RED has given us many exciting announcements and recalls on existing units to fix audio problems. My guess is the Japanese giants are still moving forward and we're likely to see some amazing things by the time the scarlet is an actual reality. I'm not banking on anything until its actually available and I can compare it to what others have out there. I think I would also be happy with a 2-3K camera vs having a nightmare in post. As per the original question I would probably opt for the s35 scarlet, though I hope downrezing is an option in the future.
 
I've been shooting with 2/3" cameras for three decades. The depth of field is a constant fight. I don't like having to shoot in small rooms and be crammed into the corner and be at the bump stop of an F1.7 lens. I'd rather do head shots in those circumstances with my 170/Ultimate vs. my HDX900.

A Scarlett with 2/3" sensors is of no interest to me, but S35 with SLR and PL Mount and the most latitude and speed possible(vs. insane resolution) is of great interest. Decent ergomomics would be a big plus as well.
 
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