Saw the Hvx 200 today at panny open house

I have a price question on the P2 cards. 1GB SD cards are $60-90 each. Four are $240-360. Why is a 4GB P2 card $1750 list? Is the P2 card chassis that expensive?

Can the user change the SD memory in the P2 card?

It seems to me if Panasonic licensed Sandisk and others to make P2 cards the price may be only $400-500 for a 4GB card now and close to that for an 8GB card next January. At those prices (say $7-8k for a complete, workable HD system) it should sell a lot better than $10-12k for the same functionality.

Jan, what is your opinion?

David
 
Event Photogs,

I've done my fair share of event photography and live uplinks (like the Charlie Rose Show), usually tethered to one of our Airfax component or Triax systems and the CCU, DigiBeta or SP decks doing switched and iso records.

I'm a little curious about how many clients you have that are going to need, want or want to pay for HD post production on the other stuff I gather you're talking about - a guy with an on-board mic and knock-off Frezzi light mingling with drunken attorneys, plumbers, engineers or physicians at a cheeseball afterparty?

I know I sound like a tool, but just what kind of event photography would the untethered 16 gig record time in HD to P2 have a problem covering?

If you feel that this camera is worthy on every other level, why not just rent a dozen cards for the event? Every house from VER to Bexel is going to have them in-hand, ready to rent to clients with longform requirements.

I'm glad you in-the-box guys weren't at Ampex in the 50s, 60s and 70s when they effectively untied the first generations of videocameras with the invention of videotape. It took decades to get those formats where they are today - and they're still not on a level to compete with what P2 already is.

Pause for a moment and let the P2 thing get its footing - this is emerging technology afterall. If it fails, it fails. Even if you never fill the slots on your camera, you can still work SD and HD with nominal workarounds.

e
 
overlandfilms said:
Event Photogs,
I know I sound like a tool, but just what kind of event photography would the untethered 16 gig record time in HD to P2 have a problem covering?
e
Click to expand...

Overland- Event Videography is essentially saying:

Wedding Videos (12 hour day) <-- This is what we do most of the time
Reunions (5 hours)
Bar Mitzvahs (8 hours)
Plays and dance recitals (3 hours)

Now, you said "photography". I'm not sure if that was a typo on your part, but if it was not, then you are in the wrong place because this is a video camera we are talking about! :P

And yes, people are paying NOW for weddings in HDV format. I have a $10,000 package. Unfortunately, more would like it but the price is too high obviously.
 
DavidNJ said:
It seems to me if Panasonic licensed Sandisk and others to make P2 cards the price may be only $400-500 for a 4GB card now and close to that for an 8GB card next January. At those prices (say $7-8k for a complete, workable HD system) it should sell a lot better than $10-12k for the same functionality.

Jan, what is your opinion?
Click to expand...

There are lengthy discussions on this very point in other threads. YES, Panasonic will license P2.
 
DavidNJ said:
I have a price question on the P2 cards. 1GB SD cards are $60-90 each. Four are $240-360. Why is a 4GB P2 card $1750 list? Is the P2 card chassis that expensive?
Click to expand...

The 4 GB card is now $1450, these continue to fall in price. The SD cads are the high performance, 60X transfer, 0 error, cards, They are a bit more expensive but assure a better performance as far as reliability and transfer rate. It is not jst the SD cards in there but a fiesty little LSI that is leading the band turning this into what looks like a RAID 0 array.

The warranty on the connector is 30,000 insertions and the re-write is 100,000.

>Can the user change the SD memory in the P2 card?
Click to expand...

Not that I am aware of.


>It seems to me if Panasonic licensed Sandisk and others to make P2 cards the price may be only $400-500 for a 4GB card now and close to that for an 8GB card next January. At those prices (say $7-8k for a complete, workable HD system) it should sell a lot better than $10-12k for the same functionality.
Click to expand...

If SanDisk wanted to license we would not have a problem, as long as it was built to our specs, otherwise we would not license. I don't think they would be that much cheaper, maybe in the long run, but that is hard to tell. There 2GB 60X iis running neck and neck with ours, so I wouldn't make this bet. My feeling is that is memory will always come down in price, and by the time you have enough clients willing to pay for DVCPRO HD, the cards will be at the right price for you. The 2 GB cards, perfect for Special Effects are at $900 now, anticipated to go to $600 this fall. Remember they started at $2000.


Best,

Jan
 
Now who's being a tool? :beer:

Look, if Janice Smith's mom and dad want to plunk down $5k for a wedding video, then I'm no one to argue that she shouldn't have a multicamera 720p production with a full online edit and 1200 copy 2-disc set pressed and four-color, cello-wrapped distribution.

What I am saying, and everyone else of reason has been saying, is that the cards are going to get bigger and less expensive quickly.

Also, I didn't mean anything derogatory when I referred to you as "event photographers" - early DPs were referred to simply as "photographers", the films they worked on were "photographed by". Hence: DP (Director of Photography).

"DP", "photographer", "cinematographer" - these are good, but please dump the "videographer" monicker - it really forces unsavory recollections of greasy, rented tux SVHS format productions at dives like the Reseda Country Club in 1993.

Once capacity jumps, you'll be on the reception floor shooting P2 faster than Janice's sloppy-drunk, homophobic uncle Eddie can bust out the YMCA moves after six watered-down Seven and Sevens.

Of course, P2 might fail completely... I dunno.

e
 
comet48 said:
I agree - HVX will be great, but don't see P2 as part of the solution. Just think - for two P2 cards and a laptop, you can buy another HVX.
Click to expand...
Then don't buy P2 cards or a laptop. Just get a FireStore and be done with it, if all you want/need is hard disk acquisition. Nobody anywhere will hold a gun to someone's head and say "you must buy P2 cards". The camera supports all manner of options.

Many of us will buy the $9995 bundle and be very happy with it. And I suspect anyone who demos a P2 card is going to want one. But for those who don't, no sweat at all -- that's why Panasonic offers the $5995 camera with no cards. Those who don't want them don't have to buy them.
 
comet48 said:
The real cost with a P2 workflow must also include a laptop
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't. You can dump cards directly to a USB2 drive. You don't ever have to have a laptop involved, if you don't want.

And, you don't ever have to have a P2 card if you don't want to. That's what the FireStore (and, hopefully, other forthcoming solutions) will address.

Why not a good standard direct to HD solution - cheaper, greater storage, faster transfer.
Click to expand...
There will be direct-to-HD options. It will be cheaper, it will be more storage, it will not by any stretch be faster transfer.
 
My 2 cents. I'm looking at this camera from a filmmaker prospective. 6 grand for High Def 720/1080, Native 16:9, DV, DVCPro 25, DVCPro50 options, ability to stream to hard drive, firestore, possibly an IPOD, ability to record regular DV tape and with P2 option. Ingenious LCD display, and all the bells and whistles which we haven't seen yet. Film transfers should be much better than anything in its price range. Don't have money for a film transfer? Stream it to a projector running Windows Media 9 or 10. What line do I need to stand on to get one? Its a no brainer -- plain and simple. There will be discussions after discussions on this camera. Lets wait and see a working model. But based on the excellent product that the DVX is and the success of the Varicam, I am somewhat confident that Panasonic will once again come out with a sensational product.

P.S. It was nice meeting Jan as well as other dvxuser group folks at the NAB Post Workshop at Abelcine. Her presentation was on point and she addressed most, if not all, questions relating to archiving content. I'm waiting to see footage and possibly a Barry Green book/dvd or HD-DVD.
 
aschocken said:
Barry, is Firestore actually working on a 100mb/sec solution, or just 50?
Click to expand...
They haven't announced yet. However, I would be absolutely flabbergasted if they produced a product that didn't record the full 100-megabit stream. Dumbfounded, flabbergasted, hornswaggled, whatever you want to call it.

Or, to quote what's-his-name from The Princess Bride: "Inconceivable!"
 
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