Saw the Hvx 200 today at panny open house

That's where the term comes from, yes. But what Jan is saying is that it's not how Panasonic is working. With razor 'n' blades, or camera 'n' tapes, you expect to sell a camera, and then make your money selling tape after tape after tape. I know I've bought thousands of DV tapes over the years.

But with P2, that's not what you do. You buy two cards, maybe three, and that's it. Never buy another. The only time you'd likely buy another would be maybe if a new capacity came out, and you sold one on ebay to help fund the purchase of the newer, bigger-capacity card.

If there's any razor 'n' blades parallel that's going to happen with the HVX, it won't be with P2 cards. It'd probably be more on the blu-ray disc blank media that people will probably eventually use to archive footage onto.
 
Wonder if this *might* change upon release time? Maybe we'll get a 4GB card with the 5995 purchase or something?

Or maybe there will some kind of coupon / rebate incentive on P2 purchases to help stimulate sales? Maybe?

~reservoir~
 
Barry_Green said:
None. The $9995 bundle includes two. The $5995 price is for just the camera.
Click to expand...
Which is why I wonder why we keep on saying $6k.

I thought it would come with one 2GB card, just so it could record. However, won't you need either a P2 reader or a P2 store to get the images off the card?

Jan said she expected the 4GB card to $1000 at the camera's introduction. So the $10k package is with 2 8GB cards?
 
We keep saying $6k because that's what the camera (by itself) costs, and it will be available for sale at price and in that P2-less configuration. And at $6k, you can use firewire streaming to record high-def onto whatever equipment you may have: your computer, or onto a DVCPRO-HD tape deck, or onto a forthcoming FireStore, or HD Rack, or onto an external analog component capture station, or in several different ways. Just not to an internal P2 card.

For the $10k bundle, yes you get two 8gb cards.
 
David, any NLE that supports DVCPRO-HD will(or should) be able to capture over firewire..

I know Final Cut already does this... I assume Avid can also do it... not sure about Vegas though.. since it doesn't support DVCPRO-HD at the moment (as far as I know).

pretty much any standard hard drive can handle the 12.5MB/sec data rate of DVCPRO-HD... so this isn't much of an issue. It is a good way to go about digitizing if you don't have a P2 card.
 
Just to reply to both Barry and Jan with no disrespect of course, but they both said "Why would you need more than 2 or 3 P2 cards?"

Event Videography. Not easy to carry around a computer to upload your data from the P2 cards AS you are shuffling them and FILMING as well! Nuff said......

Not everyone here uses their camera to make films or gather news report footage....
 
Thanks tbanucci!
My rcordings are most times at live events (Opera, Drama, Dance) that last at least one hour most of them several hours. There is no way I will employ another assistent. There is also no way for me to film and care about saving Files to any hard drive, changing P2 cards every 10 Minutes. So - as much as I would have loved to incorporate that for sure great camera - the HVX is out of my range. And that's not for the prize, it's just because of the technical "limitation" (I know, there are twohundredandfiftyfour people screeming "LIMITATION!!!!!????? WTF!!!" right now. Didn't find a better word for not having any tape-HD-solution.)
 
The. Cards. Will. Get. Bigger.

These unworkable workflow posts are getting so very tired. The camera is 6k for the empty camera alone. It is presently another 4k to fill it with two 8G cards.

Just like everything else Moore's Law applies to, memory, processing speeds et-cetera these cards will jump in capacity and shrink in price. In two and a half years, this conversation will be even more moot than it is today.

THE CARDS WILL GET BIGGER.

e
 
tbanucci said:
Event Videography. Not easy to carry around a computer to upload your data from the P2 cards AS you are shuffling them and FILMING as well! Nuff said......

Not everyone here uses their camera to make films or gather news report footage....
Click to expand...
Then just get the firestore and slap it on your camera and record for three, four, five hours (whatever capacity it allows) with no cards and no swapping and no laptop.
 
overlandfilms said:
The. Cards. Will. Get. Bigger.

These unworkable workflow posts are getting so very tired. The camera is 6k for the empty camera alone. It is presently another 4k to fill it with two 8G cards.

Just like everything else Moore's Law applies to, memory, processing speeds et-cetera these cards will jump in capacity and shrink in price. In two and a half years, this conversation will be even more moot than it is today.

THE CARDS WILL GET BIGGER.

e
Click to expand...

THAT . . .

And even if they don't, and even if the workflow was as "unworkable" as some keep insisting . . .

There's nothing written into the Bill of Rights saying that this camera MUST be suitable for every possible application. There's no unalienable right being trampled on here.

If it doesn't work for you, buy something that does.
 
Guys- I know, I know, I know, about the alternatives (ie: Firestore, direct hookup to a computer, etc.).

The only reason I gave that comment is because Jan directly said (with Barry backing her up on this): "I can't see where anyone would need more than 3 cards with the HVX and in most cases, 2 would do nicely, for a very long time to come."

And I was simply pointing out- since we are talking about P2 cards here- that P2 cards would not be effective for event videographers. Yes- the Firestore is a good (not great since it maxes out at 80 GB) alternative, and yes, I know the P2 cards will EVENTUALLY go down in price. But in my opinion, we are talking (even though it is off topic from the original post) about the P2 card in the "HERE and NOW", rather than 5 years down the road when there will be cameras 10 times better than the HVX and the P2's will finally be cost worthy.

All I'm commenting on is that one particular quote. And I still think Jan and Barry are awesome, so don't think I'm flaming or anything....
 
The real problem with this analogy is that like Jan said. You would probably only need to buy two or three cards. Maybe two years from now upgrade to higher capacity ones if you need to. It's exactly like digital still cameras. I got a bigger memmory card when they where reasonable, and I don't think I will ever *need* to get a bigger one, I might want to but that's another story.. It has gotten to the point where the amount of pics it can hold is more than sufficient for me.

With Gillette, you will always have to buy new blades.
 
This is where the people lose me. What in the here and now are you needing to shoot HD with? Do you have a HD VHS? HD is still in the future for anything other then a very small amount of broadcast TV and some films. If you shoot your event in HD, what are you going to deliver it on? By the time we can start delivering HD content to your average customer, P2 cards will be sold at the $.99 store :) But serious, distribution won't even be available until sometime 2006 (maybe). Until then keep shooting SD (with DVCPRO50...a huge bargin at $10,000) and if you have HVX you will be ready for the slooooooow transition.

If you are shooting for HD broadcast in the next year or 2...rent a Varicam, your budget should allow for it.
 
Loki said:
David, any NLE that supports DVCPRO-HD will(or should) be able to capture over firewire..

I know Final Cut already does this... I assume Avid can also do it... not sure about Vegas though.. since it doesn't support DVCPRO-HD at the moment (as far as I know).

pretty much any standard hard drive can handle the 12.5MB/sec data rate of DVCPRO-HD... so this isn't much of an issue. It is a good way to go about digitizing if you don't have a P2 card.
Click to expand...
Even if they handle DVCProHD...do they support it at anything other than 720p60 of the Varicam? Do they support it reliably from the camera or primarily for capture from the deck.

On a PC, Premier Pro and Vegas dominate. Support there seems to be lacking. Support for HD-SDI seems to have greater availablity then DVCProHD.
 
Wabbit-

I currently have an HDV package that I sell (and people actually buy) for one of my wedding packages. Currently, I deliver the package in an SD format on DVD in 16x9. They also get a copy on hard drive so that they can watch it either with Windows Media 10 or H.264 on Mac. The contract that we agree on is that I will deliver to the couple their event on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD whenever it comes out to market in a few years. Until then, I store their final video on hard drive and HDV tape.

HD is going to be the future- you can count on it. People are preparing for the future now, they want HD, they are excited about HD. Even if they know nothing about it, they know that they want it because it is the next big thing in the media revolution.

Now, we as videographers realize the (many) shortcomings of HDV. I am interested in the HVX because my main cameras are the DVX100's and it will record true HD. Why are you even in this forum if you can't see the benefits of this camera?
 
@Wabbit
Are you flaming me for doing Hd right now and presenting it on a MacMini on 30'' at fairs and other presentations? ;)

Sooner or later we will be in HD land...

http://www.hddvd.org/hddvd/

is some good source. Press conference will be i think on Tuesday.
 
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