Sanken CS3e feed back - is it worth $1500?

L

lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com

Well-known member
Any negative reviews on this mic? About to spend $1450 on this soon.

I have a special requirement where I can't bring a boom op everytime. I mostly shoot spontaneous on-camera interviews w/ a super wide angle lens at noisy location. This means that I can get very close to the subject, like within 1.5-2 feet. IT's like putting a big lens in the face but the shot is still wide. The advantage here is the camera mounted mic will be very close to the subject. I also would like to record wild life sound w/ out annoying car traffic behind or left or right or people talking about the wild life within couple feet from the left or right of the mic. This mic looks like a highly directional shotgun mic that fits the bill. I'm currently using the Schoeps CMIT5U. It sounds superb but the only problem is that it doesn't reject the side as well. I'm still hearing unwanted sound even when the mic is pointed at the subject straight ahead.
 
No mic made rejects noise from the sides perfectly. Loud humans conversing a few feet to the side are always going to interfere with a recording of, say, monkey chatter 20 feet in front of the mic even with the most directional mics on the market. If you look at the polar patterns for CMIT5U and the CS3, they're almost the same in the voice frequency range so I doubt you'll see an improvement.

As an aside, if I were your subject I would be very upset at your shooting me from 2 feet with a super wide-angle lens. The perspective distortion that approach causes is VERY unflattering to the subject, making them look like they have Bozo the Clown noses etc. Far more attractive is to back off the distance and shoot with a moderate telephoto, rendering the facial features more naturally and giving the subject some psychological breathing room. Of course that means you'll need to figure out a way to get the mic off of the camera and in close where it belongs. But shoving a camera right into my face like you describe would cause me to pull back, close myself off from you, and terminate the interview as soon as I could.
 
Yes, I looked at the polar pattern for these two mics and indeed they're pretty much similar except the CMIT5U has a very small leak right toward the bottom. I was hoping for the CS3e to be even narrower but that's not the case here. Good to know this as I'll be disappointed to hear that there's not much of an improvement. I though the CS3e will be toward the parabolic mic but with full spectrum sound. Thanks for the tip. This is a big hold back to the purchase.

The only work around w/ this challenge is to have some sort of an angled magic arm that will move position the mic about 8 inches about the camera and can get about 18 inches in front of the lens. The Israeli articulating arm that I use on the LED light can be double up to put this in action. CMIT5u should be better positioned. But of course it can't replace a boom op. However for spontaneous situations, it's at least 18 inches closer than the viewfinder's mic. I just like the way the CMIT5u sounds. It's simply crisp & accurate. Has that studio condenser studio mic sounding characteristic in the field. The super wide angle lens is last resort as I noticed most subjects commented that I'm too close and might get their blemishes.


Steve House said:
No mic made rejects noise from the sides perfectly. Loud humans conversing a few feet to the side are always going to interfere with a recording of, say, monkey chatter 20 feet in front of the mic even with the most directional mics on the market. If you look at the polar patterns for CMIT5U and the CS3, they're almost the same in the voice frequency range so I doubt you'll see an improvement.

As an aside, if I were your subject I would be very upset at your shooting me from 2 feet with a super wide-angle lens. The perspective distortion that approach causes is VERY unflattering to the subject, making them look like they have Bozo the Clown noses etc. Far more attractive is to back off the distance and shoot with a moderate telephoto, rendering the facial features more naturally and giving the subject some psychological breathing room. Of course that means you'll need to figure out a way to get the mic off of the camera and in close where it belongs. But shoving a camera right into my face like you describe would cause me to pull back, close myself off from you, and terminate the interview as soon as I could.
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In theory, as you have seen the Sanken should help you out. In practice I am not so sure. The CS-3e is the LEAST forgiving of the boom/hypercardiods that are used by boom operators. You have to be BANG on with your placement or direction of the CS-3e. If a good boom operator is using this and monitoring the sound you can make the micro adjustments to make sure the talent is in sweet spot of the mic but you are going to be placing this on camera and hoping you keep the mic in the good zone. You are also going to get proximity effect which you may be drifting in and out of when you are shooting. You won't have control over this either.

The Sanken is a fabulous microphone and works really well in outside evironments where you have lots of ambient noise going on but I cannot see this working well without a boom operator.

This microphone is a common rental at sound shops like Trew and Location Sound. I would suggest renting before buying given your unusual application.

As I am sure you know, the microphone you have in your possession is considered one of the best boom mics presently available. Most soundies would rather have the Schoeps in their arsenal than the Sanken.
 
The CS3E has the best rejection of practically any mic out there. It would be better than the Scheops. They share a similar pattern, but not the same quality of pattern.
However, as Andrew mentioned you do have to be bang on your subject as a result. Which means that your subject will have to be centered on camera and you will need to find a way to angle the microphone downward, in addition to incorportating a Rycote lyre mount, because the handling noise will be a problem, traveling up from the camera and lens otherwise.
 
The natural progression is to upgrade to the Super CMIT 2U. But the staggering $4,800 discounted price is not cheap for a shotgun mic. I was shocked back in 2010 and 3 years later still shock. I mean that's just way too much for production where sound is secondary in the list of importance. I do like their preset 2 to remove a lot of side noise. The Illusonic algorithm claims up to 15 dB of additional directivity. It's almost like the CS3e in some ways but perhaps better. I can get a nice Sound Device 4-track recorder w/ TC for that price range. I can only make a comparison on the Super CMIT 2U with a high end Zeiss Digi Prime vs non-prime lens fr Fujinon or Canon. Anybody used the Super CMIT5U and would like to comment?


Andrew Stone said:
In theory, as you have seen the Sanken should help you out. In practice I am not so sure. The CS-3e is the LEAST forgiving of the boom/hypercardiods that are used by boom operators. You have to be BANG on with your placement or direction of the CS-3e. If a good boom operator is using this and monitoring the sound you can make the micro adjustments to make sure the talent is in sweet spot of the mic but you are going to be placing this on camera and hoping you keep the mic in the good zone. You are also going to get proximity effect which you may be drifting in and out of when you are shooting. You won't have control over this either.

The Sanken is a fabulous microphone and works really well in outside evironments where you have lots of ambient noise going on but I cannot see this working well without a boom operator.

This microphone is a common rental at sound shops like Trew and Location Sound. I would suggest renting before buying given your unusual application.

As I am sure you know, the microphone you have in your possession is considered one of the best boom mics presently available. Most soundies would rather have the Schoeps in their arsenal than the Sanken.
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lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
The natural progression is to upgrade to the Super CMIT 2U. But the staggering $4,800 discounted price is not cheap for a shotgun mic. I was shocked back in 2010 and 3 years later still shock. I mean that's just way too much for production where sound is secondary in the list of importance. ...
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Many would take exception to your characterization of sound as being secondary in the list of importance. In terms of advancing the story and communicating with the audience, most of the time sound quality is at least equal in importance to image quality, and in many cases it is more important than picture. Audiences tend to forgive image flaws much more readily than they're willing to forgive less than clear and understandable sound.
 
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