Samyang XEEN - new line of cinema lenses announced
- Thread starter alohype
- Start date
LochnessDigital
Active member
I'm saying that by saying "those coatings", your comment seemed to imply that the Xeen coatings and the DS coatings are the same.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I have the Rokinon 12mm t2.2. Same lens but cine version and I agree a great little lens. Maybe a bit softer than the Olympus 12mm f2.0 but still a great lens that is surprisingly comparable to many other native m43 lenses. The thing is 12mm f2.0 is pretty hard to make and they all tend to be a bit soft. That makes the Rokinon/Samyang even more impressive.
dmitrizigany
Veteran
They won't cover full frame and A7RII just happens to have an s35 crop for 4K.
dmitrizigany
Veteran
Well, FS700 is a 3-year old camera, albeit fairly popular over its run. I should have included FS7 but the timing of the release was essentially simultaneous with the A7RII release in the US and A7RII seems a bit more in line with Veydra from their respective pricing structures.
dmitrizigany
Veteran
See no point in mentioning any camera as they will work on any e-mount S35/APS-C camera. That was the confusing part, as one camera was mentioned it could have been interpreted as it was only working with that one. But now as it's been established that that's not the case all is good 
Xeen compared to Zeiss CP.2 and CineAlta lenses:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/...pared-to-zeiss-cp-2-and-sony-cinealta-primes/
"In 4K the XEEN also appeared to be the sharpest of the three." Anyone else confirmed this?
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/...pared-to-zeiss-cp-2-and-sony-cinealta-primes/
"In 4K the XEEN also appeared to be the sharpest of the three." Anyone else confirmed this?
DPStewart
Veteran
Sharpness is relatively easy in lens design, so it should be no real stretch for the XEENs to be as sharp or sharper than these others.
Designing out distortion is a lot harder - and for a true Cine-Lens is more important.
And 'character' is a downright black art.
After all the testing that has already been done now - I'm sold on them as a VERY viable set of lenses.
Can I afford them? Hahaha...not even close.
BUT it does tell me two very important things;
1.) As a RENTAL they will be very good and they will be far cheaper per day than lenses like CP2's etc.
2.) The latest Rokinon CS Cine lens line probably really is as good as the fans say. And those I CAN afford. (Just avoid the 24mm of course...unless they re-design it.)
Designing out distortion is a lot harder - and for a true Cine-Lens is more important.
And 'character' is a downright black art.
After all the testing that has already been done now - I'm sold on them as a VERY viable set of lenses.
Can I afford them? Hahaha...not even close.
BUT it does tell me two very important things;
1.) As a RENTAL they will be very good and they will be far cheaper per day than lenses like CP2's etc.
2.) The latest Rokinon CS Cine lens line probably really is as good as the fans say. And those I CAN afford. (Just avoid the 24mm of course...unless they re-design it.)
DPStewart
Veteran
Well the CP2 blew the Xeen away on this one.
For twice the price - it had better.
Maybe a comparison between a CineAlta and Xeen would be a little more of a "fair fight".
Also, the 24mm Rokinon is the weak link in the chain IMO. Perhaps the 24mm Xeen is the weak one among the Xeens as well.
cpreston
Veteran
I am not a fan of Samyang's lenses, but I've never understood the dislike for the 24mm. Is it a great lens? No. Does it work perfectly fine for most video applications? I think so. The CA and softness is noticeable wide open, but it isn't that bad.
As for the comparison test, I really can't see how the CP2's blew the Xeen away. I mean, I really can't see it. I don't have the best eyesight but the only real difference I saw between the lenses was a color cast and maybe a slight bit more breathing in the Xeen. At 4K, the sharpness appeared identical on my monitor.
As for the comparison test, I really can't see how the CP2's blew the Xeen away. I mean, I really can't see it. I don't have the best eyesight but the only real difference I saw between the lenses was a color cast and maybe a slight bit more breathing in the Xeen. At 4K, the sharpness appeared identical on my monitor.
DPStewart
Veteran
The Sam/Rok 24mm is not a "Bad" lens on its own. Not at all. If you only used the 24mm on a video production it would be completely fine.
But compared to the 16mm, the 35mm, and the 50 and 85mm it has poorer overall image quality, and if you shoot a location with the 16mm, the 24mm, and the 50mm (for example) and then you edit the different lens shots together into one scene - the shots from the 24mm will stick out like a woody at a pool party.
Ok...maybe not THAT bad.
But it WILL be noticeable. I can't have that. That is simply not an obstacle I am willing to spend time and effort trying to correct for. MUCH better to simply "Zoom with your FEET" for the in-between focal length.
The breathing of the Xeen vs. the CP2 was way more than slight. If you were watching a movie on a large screen, for example, with a few actors in a large space, and they racked from one to another - it would give a feeling of zooming or moving from one to the other. a director might like that effect if they feel it works for the scene, but if they don't want that feeling of zooming or movement then that breathing is going to be a BIG problem.
Sharpness is relatively easy to design in to a lens. Designing OUT distortions is much much harder.
In the above clip we're taking about the CP2 lens has a clearer and more even in-focus sensation to the entire frame than the Xeen does. Not a HUGE difference, but I spotted it almost immediately.
Then there's 'character'...that hard to define and difficult to design-in 'black art'... The CP2s just hit it a wee bit better.
Now we most certainly are discussing MINOR details (except for the breathing) here. Does it make a big difference in the film? NO.
But if my rental cost was the same or if the selling price was the same - I'd choose the CP2s hands-down every time.
For HALF the price??? Yeah - the Xeens are fantastic.
I agree I didn't see much difference either outside of color cast, and I don't think the breathing was as bad as previously stated obviously not as good as the CP2, but for the price it's a not a bad lens.
Last edited:
cpreston
Veteran
I did a test of a number of different 24mm lenses on a 1DC and put some of them in a video. I no longer own the Samyang 24mm, so it isn't in the tests. Most of the lenses weren't great, especially in the corners. Only one lens actually seemed to outperform the sensor in a way that I could see moire starting to pop up on the resolution chart, and that was the 24mm TSE II. That thing is seriously sharp, but it's max aperture is only f/3.5 so it really doesn't compare.
Here is one of the tests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJujjeFzjRU
Samuel H
Major Contributor
On the newsshooter test, I also see the 24mm being softer at T/2, but everything is OK at T/2.8, so, you can think of it as a tradeoff: it allows you to go T/1.5 if you need it, but requires T/2.8 if you want it really sharp.
In any case, I agree here that the problem is that the others are much better: I have the 8mm EF and 12mm E and they are seriously awesome lenses, much better than stuff costing two or three times as much. And the 85mm is really good too. The 35mm, not so great but still pretty good. The 24mm, the weakest link in the lineup.
But keep in mind that the biggest problem with the "normal" samyang lenses is reliability (they will break if you abuse them) and consistency (there's usually more variation than with other brands). The XEENs should solve both problems.
To ilustrate the variation thing: your average sigma 35mm f/1.4 is better than your average samyang 35mm f/1.4, but it's not difficult to find a copy of the samyang that is better than a copy of the sigma. Look at the chart from this lensrentals article (they are doing a great series on copy-to-copy variation). You care about the green lines for HD, and the purple ones for 4K. The range for the purple lines is +/- 1.5 standard deviations, so around 10-15% of copies still fall outside the chart's range.
In any case, I agree here that the problem is that the others are much better: I have the 8mm EF and 12mm E and they are seriously awesome lenses, much better than stuff costing two or three times as much. And the 85mm is really good too. The 35mm, not so great but still pretty good. The 24mm, the weakest link in the lineup.
But keep in mind that the biggest problem with the "normal" samyang lenses is reliability (they will break if you abuse them) and consistency (there's usually more variation than with other brands). The XEENs should solve both problems.
To ilustrate the variation thing: your average sigma 35mm f/1.4 is better than your average samyang 35mm f/1.4, but it's not difficult to find a copy of the samyang that is better than a copy of the sigma. Look at the chart from this lensrentals article (they are doing a great series on copy-to-copy variation). You care about the green lines for HD, and the purple ones for 4K. The range for the purple lines is +/- 1.5 standard deviations, so around 10-15% of copies still fall outside the chart's range.
Last edited: