Sample footage vs release date

smelni

smelni

Veteran
Maybe i dont understand the production cycle of new cameras but it seems strange to me that the first footage seen from the HVX will be only a couple on months before the release.

It would seem to me that the components of the camera should have been capable of making an image a long time ago. I would imagine that prototypes have been put together for months.

Compare this to software development - a product goes into beta a long time before it goes into production. In fact, microsoft has already released a half finished beta of its next OS Vista not due out until late next year which shows some of its key features.

At this point, about 2-3 months from the release of the HVX what large modifications and tweaks could they be working on. I would hope that the design is complete and they are in the final phases of testing (or have been for awhile) and are ramping up the production.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want unready footage released - i just dont understand.
 
Well... consider that the first footage from the HD100 wasn't seen until *after* the camera was released. Seeing footage a couple of months before release is actually quite aggressive.

The camera isn't "done" yet. The HD100 wasn't "done" at NAB either; what they showed had no menu access, no "smooth motion" filter, no recording to or playing back from tape, all sorts of things weren't ready yet. I expect the HVX will be at a similar point in development, or actually further along -- at least they're planning on releasing some footage, which didn't happen with the HD100.

I don't remember specifically, but I don't think there was any FX1 or Z1 footage released before the camera was on the market either.
 
I guess that is the reality of this development - but i come from a software development background. Software products need to be ready well in advance for the proper testing.

If these features arent complete - how can they be tested. And If they are not ready that implies that they will be quickly completed in the next few weeks. Seems scary to me.

So with the HD100 at NAB how could they know that the menu structure was adequete without looping bugs etc.

Doesnt change anything - im still getting a DVX ASAP but seems strange
 
I spent many years in software development, I know what you mean. But the concept of a "public beta" is relatively new -- we *never* used to release software to the public or preview it until it was thoroughly ready.

They have internal testing going on with the camera right now, of course. The things are being extensively tested, and if something doesn't work properly yet, it'll be disabled before being demonstrated (hence why the JVC's menu structure wasn't working at NAB). But for external/public preview, I believe Panasonic is actually the most forward camera company out there -- they release footage before the camera's available for sale, and nobody else does (that I can think of). You can bet your tootsies that there was no Canon XL2 footage available before the camera hit the store shelves, or GL2 footage, or VX2100 footage, etc. Other companies don't pre-release anything.
 
Barry_Green said:
I spent many years in software development, I know what you mean. But the concept of a "public beta" is relatively new -- we *never* used to release software to the public or preview it until it was thoroughly ready.
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You obviously didn't work for Intuit :grin:
 
No, no MS or Intuit, I'm talking about video games, at Westwood Studios.

It's much more common now for there to be a public beta period, but back when we were making games we didn't preview anything. Nowadays it seems like version 1.0 of any program is basically a "public beta"!

Back to the subject at hand: I'll throw it out to the group... can anyone think of a camera that's had footage released to the public before the camera itself was? Other than the DVX?
 
Barry_Green said:
Back to the subject at hand: I'll throw it out to the group... can anyone think of a camera that's had footage released to the public before the camera itself was? Other than the DVX?
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Well, there was a sample of clips edited in Vegas and released as 720p WM9 from the Sony Z1 in Cineframe 25 quite a few months before it was released... in fact, about this time last year...

It was the obligatory flower close ups, a guy on a park bench out of focus, and ended with a shot of the Vegas box on a granite texture.

Anyone else remember this? It's what originally got me excited about the Z1.

Fortunately, I've long come to my senses. :)

Jim Arthurs
 
Pretty much everything they released between 1985 and 1998. The biggest were the Lion King, C&C, C&C:Red Alert, World Games, Winter Games, California Games, Battletech I & II, D&D: Order of the Griffon, etc. A bunch of stuff...

Anyone else remember this?
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Hmmm, yes, I do remember there being a 720p .wmv being released. I thought it was from the already-on-the-market FX1 though, not the Z1... could be dead wrong, of course.
 
Man, i was nuts about Crescent Hawk´s inception! it took me one year to finish it! That´s a new point of view of your person, Barry. Thanks for hours of fun!

O.K. totally off topic, but i had to say it!
 
Barry_Green said:
I spent many years in software development, I know what you mean. But the concept of a "public beta" is relatively new -- we *never* used to release software to the public or preview it until it was thoroughly ready.
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I have a saying regarding beta testing "Never beta test with a customer you want to keep. :laugh: "
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Well, there was a sample of clips edited in Vegas and released as 720p WM9 from the Sony Z1 in Cineframe 25 quite a few months before it was released... in fact, about this time last year...

Jim Arthurs
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Barry's right... that clip, which most people at the time weren't too impressed by, was from a FX1 two months before it was released. I remember you had to use a password to access the file. People were much more impressed after the native M2T files started coming in after release. For instance, the surfing shots by Douglass Spotted eagle.
 
mr._guiyotinne said:
Man, i was nuts about Crescent Hawk´s inception! it took me one year to finish it! That´s a new point of view of your person, Barry. Thanks for hours of fun!
Click to expand...
I assume most of those hours were spent in that dad-blasted maze at the end, right? I just want you to know -- I didn't design that part! :grin:

Although that game does feature some of my favorite little goofy scenes, the movies in the movie theater etc... just cheesy little stuff, but it was fun to put in.

I assume you wrote C?
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Depended on the platform. A lot of C, yes, and then later C++. Tons of machine language too -- 6502, 68000, 65816, 80x86, 6820, and probably some other processors I can't remember now. For the smaller computers (C64 etc) and for the videogame systems (NES, SNES, Genesis, and NEC TurboGrafx) we'd write in entirely machine language, for the bigger platforms (Atari ST and Amiga and PC) we'd write in C and then port the main code between them, and I wrote the low-level graphics and sound libraries for the various computers. I forget when we made the switch to C++; might have been on the original Command & Conquer. I think everything prior to that was either C or machine language. For the Lion King, we wrote our own language compiler, sort of C-like, to support simultaneous development on the Super Nintendo's 65816 and the Sega Genesis' 68000.
 
(for anyone keeping track, let me point out that many of those early games in our careers there were CONVERSIONS, not originals... so all the "... Games" series were originally done at Epyx, and we did conversions from the C64 to the Apple IIGS or Amiga or Atari ST, for example). Later stuff (like BattleTech, Lion King, C&C, all that stuff) was all our original work.
 
Yes! that hellish redezvous mission in the city, for months i thougt i was dumb. After that one, clans where piece of cake. And i still remember the little things that made me think this game was full taste of Battletech universe (yes, i remember the cinema screens in the city). I miss that times!

About revealing footage before the cameras are complete models and on street i must say its a dangerous movement. How many people you think have decided after hearing so many troubles from these previous unfinished versions to change their mind about this camera and go for Sony or Pana? There are lot of umpatient buyers around here...

I think the HD100 is way better (by price and options) than Z1 but has not much things to do with HVX. They should got you (or an impressive team) before anything else and made an spectacular video when the camera was finished and clean of bugs to make shure people saw the pros and not the cons that where part of the unfinished product. Patience is a virtue...
 
Damon Botsford said:
Barry's right... that clip, which most people at the time weren't too impressed by, was from a FX1 two months before it was released. I remember you had to use a password to access the file. People were much more impressed after the native M2T files started coming in after release. For instance, the surfing shots by Douglass Spotted eagle.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I stand corrected about the FX1 vrs. Z1. All I remember was that it was 25fps.

But, the footage WAS released before the FX1 was on the market by several months, correct? And that qualifies as an example in answer to Barry's question, methinks.

Even in it's WMV format it was quite apparent it was a gigantic leap in quality from the 1 chip JVC, which gave me initial hope for HDV.

Jim Arthurs
 
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